Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Video lab tour/how to get chemicals

Video lab tour/how to get chemicals

Acetic Acid - 19-8-2011 at 13:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoLvNbjd2ks

Tell me what you think! :->

(part 2 should be on the sidebar)

Mr. Wizard - 19-8-2011 at 15:26

The stuff stored in his closet is stored with the stuff most likely to leak and cause a problem at the top, and then drip into the bases and oxidizers, then into the flammables. No drip pans or safety basins provided. I would reverse the order of the materials stored, and put them in a plastic tub to at least give a second chance after a leak. There WILL be leaks. I quit watching the video after that.

[Edited on 20-8-2011 by Mr. Wizard]

Endimion17 - 19-8-2011 at 16:04

I just hope the insurance company won't see the video. hee hee hee xD

Bot0nist - 19-8-2011 at 16:20

I always wondered about the leaking issue. I use the mini greenhouse (peet-pots) trays and kitty liter trays on my storage shelf. I don't know how resistant they are but It would at least slow down a catastrophe. I also keep my acids far from my bases and oxidizers (Another shelf), and try to limit fuel in the area of the oxidizers. I know I am not up to 'OSHA' spec or anything, but I at least try and use sense in my storage. I have always feared (maybe irrationally) a midnight fire in my lab. This paranoia helps keep me and my family safe though I hope.

Trifluoroacetic - 19-8-2011 at 16:24

The idea of having acids potentially leaking onto oxidizers is somewhat frightening! In many cases this can result in an explosion, fire, or the release of toxic gasses like Chlorine especially if the acid leaking onto a strong enough oxidizer happens to be HCl.

Also H2SO4 needs to be in a plastic bin, it can dehydrate organics and potentially start a fire.

Trifluoroacetic - 19-8-2011 at 16:28

Just another example of someone trying to look smart? I hope nobody watches this and follows his storage techniques. It's an accident waiting to happen.

hkparker - 19-8-2011 at 16:38

I commented on the video but I will write more here. The store situation is indeed a big deal, and basically in the opposite order it should be.

Now, my storage situation wasn't up to OSHA standards either, but a little more thought and some redundancies (such as placing your acid bottles in spare beakers or glass containers) would go a long way for safety, especially since this is all in your room. My dangerous chemicals used to be stored in an off refrigerator in a concrete outdoor barbecue, a solid 40 feet from my house and surrounded by concrete with nothing on it, so in the case of a fire the only destroyed was the chemicals that caught fire (and that little fridge). When your sleeping 6 feet away from them I would exercise even more caution.

Acetic Acid - 19-8-2011 at 20:08

Although some of it was clearly meant to be hurtful, I do appreciate all feedback. I'll reorganize my chemicals and put some type of absorbent onto all of the shelves. I don't understand the comment about "placing your acid bottles in spare beakers or glass containers" though; am I supposed to transfer the stock into a glass container? Or put a glass container around the bottle? I don't think I have anything big enough to hold a gallon of muriatic acid.

Yes, I do plan to continue making these videos, as a hobby if nothing else. Please recognize that I'm still a beginner at this point. Thanks!

~Acetic Acid

hkparker - 19-8-2011 at 22:31

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

Although some of it was clearly meant to be hurtful

Don't take anything here like that.

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

Or put a glass container around the bottle? I don't think I have anything big enough to hold a gallon of muriatic acid.

That's what I mean. Its a bit overkill but a good idea for extremely dangerous things. I'm not expecting you to do it with the HCl, or everything for that matter.

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

Yes, I do plan to continue making these videos, as a hobby if nothing else.

Awesome, I've been doing that for over a year and its a blast.

yoyoils - 21-8-2011 at 11:26

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoLvNbjd2ks

Tell me what you think! :->

I'm jealous. I've been doing the same thing for about a year now too and it seems you're a bit more ahead than me.

i've got about as much including acetic acid from the same supplier and pocket scale but minus the 30+% peroxide and i don't have like any of your other oxidizers or MEK/Toluene. Lucky

Steve_hi - 21-8-2011 at 12:06

Thanks for putting in the effort to show a home lab in the evolution process I like seeing how others arrange their labs.
I'm just starting to get into it too .

Mr. Wizard - 21-8-2011 at 13:36

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

Although some of it was clearly meant to be hurtful, I do appreciate all feedback. I'll reorganize my chemicals and put some type of absorbent onto all of the shelves. I don't understand the comment about "placing your acid bottles in spare beakers or glass containers" though; am I supposed to transfer the stock into a glass container? Or put a glass container around the bottle? I don't think I have anything big enough to hold a gallon of muriatic acid.

Yes, I do plan to continue making these videos, as a hobby if nothing else. Please recognize that I'm still a beginner at this point. Thanks!

~Acetic Acid

What is suggested is to put the original container that have liquid in them, inside other containers, so as to contain a leak. Bottles crack, leak, shatter, leaving the liquid to spread everywhere. Often this isn't noticed for hours or days leaving quite a mess , or a disaster. Consider putting liquid containers into buckets just a little bigger than the bottles they came in. Don't take them out of the bottles, just nest them inside another container. Another option is to get some plastic 5 gallon (20L) polyethylene or polypropylene buckets from a hardware or paint store. Often these buckets can be found in trash containers for free. They can be cut down to size with a saw or even a hot wire. Just make sure they are big enough in volume to hold the whole container load.

When looking at a bottle of liquid don't think IF it is going to leak, think it WILL leak. When you reach for one bottle and your arm hits another, where will it land? Every 'unlikely' event will happen sooner or later. This isn't meant as a personal attack or to make you feel bad, since I've made every stupid mistake, and have been lucky enough to tell about it. Learn from others' mistakes at no cost. Stay safe.

As to absorbants, think carefully as to what benefit they may have versus side reactions and increased surface area. What would you put around an acid leak to make it safer? Some will increase evaporation, some will catch fire, some will foam up and overflow the container.

[Edited on 21-8-2011 by Mr. Wizard]

[Edited on 22-8-2011 by Mr. Wizard]

smaerd - 21-8-2011 at 18:18

Clean your room!

edit- looks good but yea take the suggestions from the other members here.

[Edited on 22-8-2011 by smaerd]

User - 22-8-2011 at 01:24

Indeed clean it up, I must admit I'm certainly not the organised type myself but your creating a situation that can be dangerous.
One these things is to keep your bench clear at any time, for example when you spill something etc etc things could turn out messy.

*offtopic*
I'm excited, within a couple of months Ill be building a new lab.
I might post some pictures when it under construction/done.

[Edited on 22-8-2011 by User]

mr.crow - 22-8-2011 at 07:06

Also keep in mind those plastic muriatic acid bottles will release a lot of HCl fumes and corrode everything. You can smell them at the hardware store, yuck! I transferred the HCl into glass bottles then put in a plastic bag inside a box with some baking soda to absorb fumes. Can't smell anything after opening the box even after long term storage.

He has mostly household chemicals so its no worse then under someone's sink. The organization is great, despite the wrong order

EDIT: You should also recrystallize most of your stuff so its not crap quality. Start with the CuSO4, its easy and you get a ton of huge blue crystals. KNO3 is also super easy

[Edited on 22-8-2011 by mr.crow]

redox - 1-9-2011 at 07:40

Any comments on my storage situation/home lab?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXm4CJT7dag&feature=feedu

Bot0nist - 1-9-2011 at 07:51

I got a comment: I'm jealous!

Nice setup you got there! Looks like you have some loyal minions too. :cool:

Very noble of you to display you name and face. Telling of your pure motives. Keep up the good work redox. I love your lab!

redox - 1-9-2011 at 07:57

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

I got a comment: I'm jealous!

Nice setup you got there! Looks like you have some loyal minions too. :cool:

Very noble of you to display you name and face. Telling of your pure motives. Keep up the good work redox. I love your lab!

Thanks for the kind words Bot0nist! My minions are very interested in chemistry, and they are good learners!

mr.crow - 1-9-2011 at 09:01

Very Nice!!!

Don't want to nitpick, but your ether is in a clear glass bottle

Maybe you could repackage some other ones in nicer bottles too

But yeah, nice work!

redox - 1-9-2011 at 12:46

Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow

Very Nice!!!

Don't want to nitpick, but your ether is in a clear glass bottle

Maybe you could repackage some other ones in nicer bottles too

But yeah, nice work!

I always distill before use, but yeah, I'm tempted to wrap that bottle in duct tape or something. I really like those pyrex media bottles.

My ether is stored under argon, however, so I'm doubtful about how many peroxides could have actually formed.

Acetic Acid - 1-9-2011 at 14:47

That was awesome! How did you build that fume hood :-O

Endimion17 - 1-9-2011 at 15:59

Wow, not just that you have a great fumehood, you've got minions, too. Minions are great. You can order them to clean the mess afterwards, like filthy beakers and flasks.

I'd recommend you to buy some plastic trays for the corrosives on the metal shelf.
I hope you've got some good venting. Moisture sucks. The good thing is that you have space to move around.

The fumehood is great, but I hope aluminium doesn't play any large structural role. Aluminium fails in labs, that's a common sight.

Steve_hi - 1-9-2011 at 16:14

Thanks for the video real cool looking lab and well stocked.
I can well imagine you as the head of a large research firm some day keep it up.

hkparker - 1-9-2011 at 16:33

Quote: Originally posted by redox

Any comments on my storage situation/home lab?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXm4CJT7dag&feature=feedu

Looking forward to your videos!

redox - 1-9-2011 at 16:56

Quote: Originally posted by Acetic Acid

That was awesome! How did you build that fume hood :-O

Thanks! It was a 2x4 and plywood structure, with a layer of drywall inside the plywood, and aluminum sheet inside that. Tile covers the bottom. The ventilation is a regular range hood, like one that could be found in a kitchen.

Quote: Originally posted by Ediminion17

Yeah, plastic trays would be nice.
The venting is surprisingly good, the plexiglass sash blocks off air holes, preventing leaks.

As I said, the aluminium plays no structural role, it is really only for looks. The aluminium has shown to be relatively corrosion-resistant. I have filled the fumehood with chlorine gas, bromine vapor, nitrogen dioxide, some hydrogen sulfide, etc. The aluminium has shown little to no corrosion. I think it is anodized or something.

Ediminion, as a response to your youtube comment, the sodium is stored in an HDPE bottle, so even if it fell, it couldn't really break. The other poisons and reactive things are either in plastic or metal (mercuric chloride, lithium, etc.), so they couldn't break either.
Also, I will most likely be getting some sort of garbage bin soon.

Quote: Originally posted by Steve_hi

I can well imagine you as the head of a large research firm some day keep it up.

That is one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me. Thank you.

Quote: Originally posted by Steve_hi

Looking forward to your videos!

The crew and myself are looking forward to (hopefully) making them!

[Edited on 2-9-2011 by redox]

Endimion17 - 1-9-2011 at 18:16

Quote: Originally posted by redox

The more chemicals you store, the more sticky residue you'll find around. It's inevitable. And you seem to be on the way of stuffing the shit out of your lab.

That's ok if there's venting.

Aluminium will corrode sooner or later, no matter it's anodized. I think HCl contributes the most to it, and we've all got lots of it. Also mercury. One college professor was telling me how his aluminium fumehood handle failed just because there was a bottle of mercury inside.
It takes years, but that metal crumbles. The vent duct will fail first. One day, you might consider replacing it with wide plastic pipes. It tends to be a bit expensive, but it lasts.

HDPE melts easily, and then ruptures and releases petroleum or whatever you store sodium in. That's why there a laboratory rule - pyrophorics are to be held in metal containers filled with dry sand. It might sound a bit paranoid, but there's a reason why it's a rule.

I'm planning to buy a small fire extinguisher and I recommend it to everyone.

redox - 1-9-2011 at 18:37

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17

Quote: Originally posted by redox

The more chemicals you store, the more sticky residue you'll find around. It's inevitable. And you seem to be on the way of stuffing the shit out of your lab.

I didn't show it in the video, but I have a big honkin' ABC fire extinguisher, which I store on the side of the hood.

The grease filter on the hood is eroding terribly, and it is aluminum. Small flakes of it are falling off into the workspace, which is quite annoying. I'll have to buy a new one soon.

I realize it's a risk, however small, but I don't think I'll be storing my sodium in a metal can with sand. I'm tempted to store my highly toxic things, e.g. mercuric chloride, in a special place, though, because I really do not want that stuff spreading around. It is currently shrink-wrapped in a plastic container, which isn't bad, but it makes me nervous thinking about it.

#maverick# - 1-9-2011 at 22:36

hey redox nice lab, respect, i have to invest in some shelving to my lab look like less of a meth lab ill post pics when i come back from being outta town

starman - 1-9-2011 at 23:08

Quote: Originally posted by redox

The ventilation is a regular range hood, like one that could be found in a kitchen.
[Edited on 2-9-2011 by redox]

You're not concerned with running flammable solvents through this? The dedicated thread to hoods relates quite some effort separating the turbine from the electrics.

Bot0nist - 2-9-2011 at 03:30

Quote: Originally posted by starman

Quote: Originally posted by redox

The ventilation is a regular range hood, like one that could be found in a kitchen.
[Edited on 2-9-2011 by redox]

You're not concerned with running flammable solvents through this? The dedicated thread to hoods relates quite some effort separating the turbine from the electrics.

I think starman may be right. I had a flash fire when using an in-line duct fan to clear fumes during a M.E.K. distillation. No injuries or structural damage, but scary as hell.

Mr. Wizard - 15-10-2011 at 14:49

I must tell you about a near disaster I just avoided. I had two boxes of Calcium Chloride, sold as dehumidifier refills, and as pool water conditioner. They came in heavily waxed cardboard boxes, similar to milk boxes . Since this material is basically non toxic, non combustable, and safe as dirt, I just put it on a shelf a few years ago and forgot about it.

Today I was going through some containers looking for a resistor to repair a radio, and found an oily residue on the plastic containers. After putting the container back, I happened to notice more oily residue on another container. It wasn't oil, it was calcium chloride that had absorbed water from the air, the solution soaked through the box and dripped down onto some plastic boxes.

Only good luck kept this stuff from dripping another foot downward onto a spectrum analyzer, and some other electronics. All this would have been avoided if I had put the material in better containers and put them in plastic tubs.

bbartlog - 15-10-2011 at 15:12

I had a similar incident with CaCl2... deliquescence followed by leakage, which damaged a drywall ceiling panel on the floor below.

Mr. Wizard - 15-10-2011 at 20:32

Yes,,, mine worked its way through a 1/2" thick OSB shelf , a cheap type of plywood, and spread out. I can see the discoloration of the wood, but it still has integrity. It did soak into an empty paper box too, and ruined it. I can see how it would ruin paper.