Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Calculus: utility in chemistry

Biochemscientist - 18-8-2011 at 20:53

Hi all,

I am currently studying as a biochemistry major as an undergrad, and I am currently working on completing my second semester of calculus (integrals). I am wondering whether I should bother taking third semester (multivariable) calculus or not. After taking so many previous classes like precalculus, trigonometry, algebra and so on to get up to this level, I am starting to get tired of all this math and am wondering if it is really worth it or not to continue. I understand that calculus has a few important applications in chemistry such as in chemical kinetics calculations, but are there many more applications beyond that?

Will all of this math study pay off? How useful do you think calculus is for a chemist, particularly an organic chemist or biochemist?

Mr. Wizard - 18-8-2011 at 21:06

Knowledge is like a box full of tools, or a lab full of equipment. Who knows what may prove to be an asset? Just understanding the concepts involved may give you an insight into some new field or discovery.

Yes it's hard. You pick the tools you need for later.
Good luck.

ldanielrosa - 18-8-2011 at 23:38

I'll be blunt. If you don't already have an application, and you don't enjoy it, and it doesn't satisfy any prerequisites, then stop.

Decision matrix:
want? need? how much?
yes, yes, as much as you can
yes, no, as much as you like
no, yes, as much as you need
no, no, don't

With no application and no reward, you'll work twice as hard and understand less only to lose it by the time you need it. Then you'll have more to take all over again.

bbartlog - 19-8-2011 at 06:37

Differential equations are probably more useful for chemistry than advanced calculus, though I'm sure that some academic career paths need lots of calculus (in silico reaction or molecular simulations, bring all the math you can...).

DDTea - 19-8-2011 at 15:29

"I advise my students to listen carefully the moment they decide to take no more mathematics course. They might be able to hear the sound of closing doors." - James Caballero, CAIP Quarterly 2 (Fall, 1989)

That's how Donald McQuarrie opens his book, "Mathematics for Physical Chemistry." I share that view to an extent: I see no benefit in taking a course in writing rigorous mathematical proofs, but at a minimum I would encourage you to study multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and calculus-based statistics. If they aren't requirements for your degree program, see if you can take them as a pass-fail option.

As a scientist, you will never escape mathematics. It's better to get a strong understanding of it early on so that you can have some fluency in it later. Nothing is more frustrating than checking out a library book on a new technique you'll be working on in your lab and finding that the mathematics is outside of your comfort zone. So instead of trying to cut corners with math, I think you'll benefit much more from going both feet in and making math your bitch.

[Edited on 8-19-11 by DDTea]

watson.fawkes - 20-8-2011 at 07:46

Quote: Originally posted by DDTea  
"I advise my students to listen carefully the moment they decide to take no more mathematics course. They might be able to hear the sound of closing doors." - James Caballero, CAIP Quarterly 2 (Fall, 1989)

That's how Donald McQuarrie opens his book, "Mathematics for Physical Chemistry." I share that view to an extent: I see no benefit in taking a course in writing rigorous mathematical proofs, but at a minimum I would encourage you to study multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and calculus-based statistics.
I heartily concur, but then again, I know a lot of mathematics.

I disagree with the "no benefit" characterization of rigorous proof. The benefit of learning mathematical rigor is that you are learning how to not deceive yourself. I've done a lot of science and technology, and I assure you that there is nothing I've ever come across that works nearly as well. It's a non-trivial amount of work to learn to avoid self-deceit, so don't expect some kind of self-empowerment seminar that can do the like. It's some hard work, but once the mindset takes hold, it sticks. So once you get a top grade in any rigorous mathematics course, you've reached a plateau from which you can expand outward.

For physical chemists, I have a specific recommendation. Take a mathematically-rigorous linear algebra course before taking quantum mechanics. By rigorous, I mean one where linear operators are primary, and matrices are representations of linear operators in finite dimensions. There are cheesy linear algebra courses that just focus on matrices without getting at the principles; avoid these. Learning QM with a solid grounding in linear algebra is easy, because almost everything in an undergraduate QM class is evaluating inner products. If you can recognize this, it's all very straightforward, even if some of the integrals can be a grind.

MeSynth - 20-8-2011 at 11:53

If your smart enough to do it then you should do it. im sure it will come in hand if you decide to become a chemical engineer.