From reading the biographies of some prominent 17th century scientists, it seems that one of the important phenomena of the time was the light emitted
by meat when it was rotting. In Shadwell's play, The Virtuoso, this was parodied in the depiction of a scientist reading by the light of a
rotting leg of pork.
Is this actually true? Does rotting meat emit light by luminescence, fluorescence or phosphorescence?
I would like to try the experiment myself, but because of the smell etc., I would be satisfied by a good biochemical explanation.
Any ideas?
Cheers,
Rodchemoleo - 5-3-2004 at 05:56
Hey,
there is a thread already that deals with photoluminescent bacteria, http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1485
It deals with the preparation of luminescent bacteria.
In this case it is fish meat, which doesn't even have to be rotting yet...just gotta be fresh, straight from the sea!
Makes me wonder, why would such bacteria be photoluminescent, what's hte evolutionary necessity?
Any ideas?Organikum - 5-3-2004 at 08:27
This didnt answer his question - now I have to slaughter somebody to try this out!
And all because chemoleo didnt answer the question!
But for chemoleos question:
- maybe its just a byproduct of their metabolism? Fecal matter in form of light? chemoleo - 5-3-2004 at 10:15
Organikum, u having a bad day?
Quote:
Is this actually true? Does rotting meat emit light by luminescence, fluorescence or phosphorescence?
I answered the question in that rotting meat (now is fish not a type of meat?) produces light, via bacterial reactions. And a useful reference happens
to be that thread, that contains links that may link to other phosphorescent bacteria, which in turn may truly grow on rotten pork legs.
As the topics seem very much interrelated, I think it was fair to point this out. Satisfied? So no need chopping your own head off for that particular
experiment you plan - just get some pork chops, and possibly fresh fish, and
compare results!
The biochemistry of photoluminesce is likely to be the same, or related - which is what I remember from when I read up about it. It involves an enzyme
called luciferase, and FADH2. Yes, *that* luciferase that is used in Molecular Biology Labs for Luciferase Reporter Assays!PHILOU Zrealone - 2-6-2004 at 08:28
More likely there are many metabolic and catabolic reactions occuring in rotting meat.
As a mather of fact meat contains quite some compounds that can be reduced to yield reducing molecules...wich are sensitive to oxygen.And rotting
often lead to reduced (hydrogenated forms of oxydated atoms).
R-CO2H --> R-CH2-OH --> CxHy
SO4 --> SO3 --> S --> H2S
R-NH-CO --> N2 --> NH3
and
PO4 --> PO3 --> P --> PH3
....
The famous case of Follet's fire is known and....the responsible are P, PH3, CxHy...aside from this you may have impurities based on H2P-PH2 and
related organic compounds R-PH2, R2PH, R3P,...
Those are more than certainly responsible of chemoluminescence...just as plain P does when it is in thin layer and cooled by some watery fluid (here
water from the meat).So you have wood and plants made of plantcells and since their composition is almost the same as animal cells...you should get
the same.
In that kind of ideas watch for spontaneous ignition...many cases have occured and it is some kind of inner rotting that catalyses itself to lead to
elevated heat and even faster reaction...runnaway rotting --> fire.
Note that those rotting are actually fermentation and fermenting urine allows to get a phosphorescent liquor rich at P and R-PH2...
Fermentation occurs thanks to special microorganism under a very specific stressed condition...what is oxygen free or depleted environement.
Like for ethanol,for methanogenisation, H2S formation in reject dirty waters, and phosphine formation in the bottom mud under water rich at organic
compounds that depress the O2 level in stagnating mouras water....or for petrol formation...
