Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Double-salt of Sodium hypophosphite & chlorate(from tetrazolelover YT channel)

Energetics-testin - 23-5-2023 at 09:17

I saw Energetic Herectic (@tetrazolelover) videos on the co-crystalized NaPO2h2.h20 and NaCl03 mix. I was quite impressed and decided to try it for myself and test its properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKgQ-lH5tSY
^
YouTube video of @tetrazolelover

After Looking at the video and went and bought some sodium hypophosphite monohydrate from ebay(from lithuania),After 2 month it arrived and I could finally Test this double salt.

My sodium chlorate is not pure,I usually extract it out from store-bought sodium hypochlorite (bleach),I Do manage to get quite good purity but id say its not more than 80% pure..the contamination is mainly NaCl.


To make The double salt:NaPO2H2.H2O 0.5g+3ml
+
NaClO3 0,5g +3ml H2O

When both solutions are mixed in a crystalizing dish,the mix becomes a bit syrupy,my first time I used the sun to evaporate liquid(this took 1 full day)
and left me with a coarse salt like Double salt,im guessing its very impure..

However,even if the sodium chlorate purity is questionable, the double salt Still detonated with a quite a loud report for what it is..i was impressed..the salt wasnt even fully dried..

With Shock,the Double salt detonates when a weight of 1,5 pounds is dropped from 30 centimeters,all tests under 28cm did not detonate at all.

For friction,Ihad no problem with it,Icould crush the "coarse salt like" crystals without detonation,

Static electricity sensitivity, 8/10 The DRY double salt can be detonated with a small discharge from a simple electric lighter "spark generator".


[Edited on 23-5-2023 by Energetics-testin]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 24-5-2023 at 01:50

Interesting research. Beware of the anhydrous mixture of these two substances. Especially with pure NaClO3. It explodes spontaneously for no reason. During drying....:cool:
Overcoming the water barrier is approximately from 60 to 80 Celsius.

Energetics-testin - 24-5-2023 at 08:01

Sorry I forgot those videos.

Thanks Dr.liptakov,I'll be extra careful when working with the dry salt.


Also the dry salt is capable of denting aluminium cans with only 30 mg,Quite impressive for a simple mixture.

Attachment: Double salt det.mov (1.9MB)
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Attachment: DS DET 20MG.mov (3.5MB)
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Attachment: DS DET 30MG.mov (2MB)
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Attachment: DET DS NaHypo & Chlorate.mov (2.2MB)
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Attachment: bam test.mov (648kB)
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Laboratory of Liptakov - 24-5-2023 at 12:02

NaNO3 , NaClO4, NaClO3 provide (with NaH2PO2) 2x better results than their salts with K. Oxygen balance for monohydrate NaH2PO2 is - 28 on CO2.
NaClO3 has OB + 45.55, NaClO4 has OB + 52.3.
Exact ratio for mixture NaClO3 / NaH2PO2 = 38 / 62
Exact ratio for mixture NaClO4 / NaH2PO2 = 33 / 66 (parts by weight)
Content water in monohydrate NaH2PO2 is 14% of the weight.

MineMan - 25-5-2023 at 00:33

If you’re trying to make a usable primary I would focus on another oxidizer. I wonder what copper sulfate and this would do. Or copper oxide.

Energetics-testin - 21-7-2023 at 09:46

As mentioned by Dr.LL the mix,when dry becomes extremely friction sensitive.
About 2 month ago when I was experimenting with it I became impatient and started to scratch the terracota dish it was in to recover the material...
At first it was okay...but then suddenly..it went off in my face.
I wasnt hurt but it made me shit myself..thankfully I had already scrapped most of it off.


So yeah..Sodium hypophosphite + strong oxydizers are just bad..
Ive tried with other nitrate and chlorate salts but the best was sodium chlorate and strontium nitrate.

[Edited on 21-7-2023 by Energetics-testin]

MineMan - 22-7-2023 at 03:24

There are not many easily made insensitive primaries or rather NPED. Most tend to be too sensitive. But that’s a good thing. It leaves the rewards to those who search deeply for them.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 22-7-2023 at 12:29

A rather interesting mixture is 1g NaH2PO2 + 1g basic gunpowder. This creates a very fast flash powder that is quite safe to handle. Both items are mixed with water and dried at 40 Celsius by 30 minute. So that the hypophosphite does not lose its crystalline water and remains as a monohydrate. This mixture, wrapped only in aluminum foil, delivers a deafening blast. Similar to Chinese firecracker. Thus construction does not require a solid paper tube , which simplifies the production. .....:cool:

B(a)P - 22-7-2023 at 13:16

Quote: Originally posted by Energetics-testin  
As mentioned by Dr.LL the mix,when dry becomes extremely friction sensitive.
About 2 month ago when I was experimenting with it I became impatient and started to scratch the terracota dish it was in to recover the material...
At first it was okay...but then suddenly..it went off in my face.
I wasnt hurt but it made me shit myself..thankfully I had already scrapped most of it off.

[Edited on 21-7-2023 by Energetics-testin]



Using terracotta as a reaction vessel or evaporation dish for energetic materials is a terrible idea. Firstly it is porous, so the energetic compound will likely seep soak into the terracotta, if enough soaks in it may shower you in tiny high speed terracotta fragments when it does go off.
Secondly, terracotta has a very rough surface. This causes two issues, your product will not easily be removed as it will adhere to the surface and a significant amount of friction will be caused when you try to scrape it out.
Energetics-testin has performed a nice little experiment to prove this so that you don't have to.

Quote: Originally posted by Energetics-testin  

So yeah..Sodium hypophosphite + strong oxydizers are just bad..
Ive tried with other nitrate and chlorate salts but the best was sodium chlorate and strontium nitrate.

[Edited on 21-7-2023 by Energetics-testin]


This is not proof that sodium hypophosphite/oxidiser mixture are 'just bad'. It is a demonstration of what goes wrong when you use inappropriate techniques. If you tried scraping many of the primary explosives used today off, when stuck to terracotta, you would have a decent chance of getting the same result.

Energetics-testin - 24-7-2023 at 10:21

Thank you doctor for sharing another interesting mixture :D

B(a)P: Yeah I knew that is wasn't a bright idea to use terracotta.
At the time I had no proper evaporating dishes available to me.

Yeah I shouldn't have said that. I should have formulated it in another way.

In my opinion, Working with these co-crystalized mixtures containing sodium hypophosphite and strong oxidizers is not worth it because of the high sensitivity and the low brisance most mixtures tend to have. Some mixtures tend to be less sensitive but also less powerful compared to the highly sensitive mixtures.

The product is almost always very hygroscopic, they're power/brisance is quite weak for they're sensitivities, most of them are highly sensitive when they are completely dry(anhydrous).Not every mixture is but there are a few that are highly sensitive to static/electric discharges.

Yeah you're right!
That's why I no longer use terracotta as reaction vessels. :cool:






Laboratory of Liptakov - 24-7-2023 at 11:24


Exactly, .....@Energetics-testin
The product is almost always very hygroscopic, they're power/brisance is quite weak for they're sensitivities, most of them are highly sensitive when they are completely dry(anhydrous).Not every mixture is but there are a few that are highly sensitive to static/electric discharges.

Yeah I shouldn't have said that..........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubeus_Hagrid

MineMan - 25-7-2023 at 03:43

I think the Russian patents included a perchlorate mix with Viton A. I remember VOD being up to 7kms.

Maybe some of you have in cured viton A??

maizhangyu - 23-5-2024 at 07:32

You can try most of the antioxidants, sodium hypophosphite and potassium ascorbate have been proven to work, I'm going to try 6-O-palmitoyl-L-ascorbic acid for its effects, it's going to be a lot more stable than ascorbic acid
"Insoluble in water and vegetable oils.
L-ascorbic acid palmitate (VC ester for short) has a highly efficient oxygen scavenging and nutrient fortification function, with all the physiological activities of vitamin C, at the same time overcoming the three major shortcomings of vitamin C's fear of heat, light, and humidity, and its stability is higher than that of vitamin C."