Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Will Na-ion batteries eventually replace Li-ion ?

Will Na-ion batteries eventually replace Li-ion ?

metalresearcher - 14-9-2022 at 08:20

This online chemistry textbook page tells about the viability of sodium ion batteries. I have watched some Youtube videos about this (look for 'sodium ion battery') most of which are recent (< 2 years old).
It looks promising, they even tell that Cobalt is not needed but Iron and Manganese.

What are your ideas ?

Herr Haber - 14-9-2022 at 09:29

Quote: Originally posted by metalresearcher

It looks promising, they even tell that Cobalt is not needed but Iron and Manganese.

What are your ideas ?

You asked for it...
"Oh, manganese from my poop, the rest are readily available!".
More seriously I think I'll research some of these videos after dinner. Too many questions but it seems pretty interesting cost-wise.

JGHFunRun - 14-9-2022 at 17:32

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by metalresearcher

It looks promising, they even tell that Cobalt is not needed but Iron and Manganese.

What are your ideas ?

Yea... I'm gonna need context

j_sum1 - 14-9-2022 at 18:53

Na will never achieve the charge to mass ratio possible with lithium. But if the tech develops, it should be a lot cheaper. So, applications in stationary batteries with lithium for vehicles.

hexahydrate - 14-9-2022 at 22:08

Apparently Sodium Ion batteries are already commercially available. Last year CATL announced their introduction to the market https://www.catl.com/en/news/665.html and advertised 160Wh/kg energy density. However they probably sell them to large customers only, so far. I have yet to see Na-Ion battery available to individual customers.

brubei - 14-9-2022 at 23:25

Sodium is less perfomant than lithium if used for mobility. It is still very competitive for domestic usage.

clearly_not_atara - 15-9-2022 at 07:56

I'm not exactly bullish. Sodium anodes are obviously more reactive than lithium anodes. This is something many of us have direct familiarity with.

The name of the game in grid batteries is manufacturing. Making the damn thing tends to be way more expensive than the materials going in. Therefore, low energy density can impact the cost per kWh because you need more components per kWh. But more importantly, it's hard for amateurs to spitball what technology is going to be easy to make.

There are a couple of technologies that might compete with lithium on scale: sodium-ion, potassium-ion, zinc-bromine, tetrachloroaluminate-ion, iron sulfate, and the crazy-sounding "organic radical battery". I'm generally skeptical of any "flow" technology; moving parts are terrible.

Herr Haber - 19-9-2022 at 08:27

Quote: Originally posted by JGHFunRun

Yea... I'm gonna need context

Well, it's a bit childish... Back when I discovered KMnO4 and it's stains I thought "Oh, this looks just like sh**"

You asked for it

That said, the research was interesting. As I may have said in other pages my second hobby is "everything underground".
Some people talk about their cars, me and my buddies talk about... who has the biggest. Flashlight of course !
So everything that has to do with batteries is interesting to me.
Na batteries dont seem as mature as Li but some companies seem to have built hybrids.
For me personnally the biggest issue seems to be the number of cycles they can go through even before the density.

It's interesting to check on developping technologies from time to time.
Greatest example are solar panels from the 90's and current panels: better lifespan, better output, etc.

khlor - 29-1-2023 at 08:29

I guess, that for mobile/vehicle applications sodium batteries might not fly. but stationary batteries might be right for it. I mean, power density is low, but when wright is not a problem, you can stand the lower performance for a significant lower cost. there might be a niche for this market.