Sciencemadness Discussion Board - ethylenediamine

ethylenediamine

Chalo - 25-8-2022 at 12:15

Hi, all. Does anyone have ethylenediamine?
Sigma will not sell to individuals. Does anyone know why? It seems utterly innocuous to me, is there some drug or explosive or hazardous connection Ive never heard of? Its not that expensive or exotic, if I still had my university position I could get 100 mls for $30.

I will be using it to add an amine to end carboxyls and DNA 5' phosphate activated with EDC. This is a classic approach for tagging biomolecules, there are many useful labels/dyes that are amine-reactive. Speaking of which, also looking for FITC.

Thanks

Tsjerk - 25-8-2022 at 13:21

They also don't sell distilled water or table salt to individuals, they don't sell anything to individuals.

BromicAcid - 25-8-2022 at 15:34

They actually used to have a section where people could order without a account. Sold mostly periodic table scarfs and stuff though they did have a retort. Can't find it anymore though after the site redesign.

numos - 25-8-2022 at 17:14

Selling to individuals would be such a small percentage of their income that it just isn't worth the immense liability that comes with it. Most large chemical suppliers are set up this way.

Texium - 25-8-2022 at 17:22

Quote: Originally posted by Chalo

Hi, all. Does anyone have ethylenediamine?
... It seems utterly innocuous to me

Hmm highly toxic, volatile, and corrosive. Yeah, innocuous!

Chalo - 26-8-2022 at 06:09

Response to Texium:

Toxic: LD50 900 mg/kg (rat)
corrosive: diamine, pH about 11. Would not soak anything in it, but much less corrosive than many routinely used things.
Volatile: boiling point 118 degrees celsius. I suppose you consider water highly volatile? True, the stuff does stink as many lab chemicals do, and I would not leave the cap off, but seriously.

I am an old coot from days when people were not nearly so timid, and it has been a while since I was in a lab setting where people routinely and casually handled (without incident) all sorts of things that now cause panics. I am trying to get a handle on just how far its gone.
Anyway, happy to report that the highly irresponsible folks at labdirect have confirmed that they will sell me this deadly material to further my plot for world domination.

Chalo - 26-8-2022 at 06:24

I forgot to thank TsJerk, BromicAcid, and Numos for their helpful comments. So not even table salt! forget sigma.

I remember getting something from Sigma as an individual, but perhaps either my memory tricks me or it was a long time ago.

Even for companies that do deal with individuals, I have learned from this forum that some surprising materials are controlled because they can be used in manufacture of certain drugs, and its not intuitively obvious why they are monitored.
This forum has been a great help to me in clarifying those, there is even an appalling list posted.

PirateDocBrown - 26-8-2022 at 06:42

Mario might have it, otherwise do a search, someone here might also. If not, try Lab Depot.

Texium - 26-8-2022 at 08:54

Quote: Originally posted by Chalo

Uh huh... as though LD50 is the only or best indicator of a compound's health hazard. It may not outright kill you, but if it was splashed in your eyes it could permanently blind you. And irritation of eyes and nasal passages is observed at concentrations of 200 ppm. Same goes for corrosion: there's many ways that things can be corrosive that are not directly correlated with pH. I have witnessed it embrittle, discolor, and ultimately escape from the plastic caps of bottles it is stored in. pH has fuckall to do with that. Or the fact that it is reported to cause severe skin burns. I'd much rather spill concentrated HCl on my skin than ethylenediamine. And with regard to volatility? Yes, water is volatile! You just don't notice it because we're constantly surrounded by water vapor and it's odorless and harmless. If you open a bottle of ethylenediamine you can immediately see profuse white fumes coming off. If that's not volatile, I don't know what is.

Quote: Originally posted by Chalo

I am an old coot from days when people were not nearly so timid, and it has been a while since I was in a lab setting where people routinely and casually handled (without incident) all sorts of things that now cause panics. I am trying to get a handle on just how far its gone.
Anyway, happy to report that the highly irresponsible folks at labdirect have confirmed that they will sell me this deadly material to further my plot for world domination.

My overall point was not that ethylenediamine is some evil deadly material, but that referring to it as "utterly innocuous," as you did, is utterly asinine, because it does present substantive health hazards. I've worked with ethylenediamine, and sure, it's not a big deal with proper PPE and ventilation. I've worked with plenty of things much more hazardous. This week I'm running reactions with methyl triflate. But yeah, what do I know, I'm just some "timid" Zillennial. Glad you were able to find some and I hope your research goes well.

Fantasma4500 - 3-9-2022 at 08:48

might be doable through ethylene glycol and urea, but the whole process is a bit tacky. many years ago i did this, heated it up well and kept it on flame for maybe 5 minutes
didnt do shit, so i locked it up in a container of some sort that later turned out to be leaking, i had vials in a carboard box in a plastic bag tucked away, and the smell made me not want to ... "fish" .. (i believe would be relevant term for it) them out and clean the vials off. it sure did something over time

EG + several molar excess of urea heated 150-240*C, several hours
brittle resin when cooled down
pyrolysis of resin at 240-270*C, reduced pressure results in ethyleneurea
hydrolyzed at 250*C, twice the yield

unsure if this would yield ethyleamine or ethylenediamine? both are plausible- i never decided to repeat this experiment anyhow.

Tsjerk - 4-9-2022 at 06:22

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat

.
unsure if this would yield ethyleamine or ethylenediamine? both are plausible- i never decided to repeat this experiment anyhow.

Why do you think ethylamine would be plausible? Going from ethylene glycol there are two active groups, you can't just make one disappear.

[Edited on 4-9-2022 by Tsjerk]

XeonTheMGPony - 12-9-2022 at 04:17

Quote: Originally posted by Chalo

Response to Texium:

Toxic: LD50 900 mg/kg (rat)
corrosive: diamine, pH about 11. Would not soak anything in it, but much less corrosive than many routinely used things.
Volatile: boiling point 118 degrees celsius. I suppose you consider water highly volatile? True, the stuff does stink as many lab chemicals do, and I would not leave the cap off, but seriously.

I am an old coot from days when people were not nearly so timid, and it has been a while since I was in a lab setting where people routinely and casually handled (without incident) all sorts of things that now cause panics. I am trying to get a handle on just how far its gone.
Anyway, happy to report that the highly irresponsible folks at labdirect have confirmed that they will sell me this deadly material to further my plot for world domination.

Its gon full retard sadly, now days breathing will kill you so hold your breath! people suffer the delusion that safety is a substance that can be mandated and forced

It is a mind set, any thing is "dangerous" in the hands of an idiot, and there in lies the problem, with foam covered corners we are producing em.

FrenchChemist - 30-12-2022 at 06:00

exactly any substance can be harmful and I have found out that many demonized reagents are not that dangerous (and no - I did not eat them) but working with them turned out to be much more pleasant than described, they retained their presence for a long time even when I did not treat them "perfectly" in a delicate form packaging or unnoticed leaks