Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Electromagnetic radiation waves removal?

Fantasma4500 - 21-2-2022 at 12:38

so - EMF, electromagnetic radiation comes from many sources, if one worries of this type of radiation typical solution would be to insulate EMF emitting devices with material that can deflect these waves
now, do that with a whole room and youre just trapping them
of all my years the best bet ive heard at absolving these waves would be pieces of metal stuck in a pyramid epoxy-mold, thats kinda silly. i went ahead and tested it, naturally, and they seem to make absolute no difference to an EMF source emitting 600 units - on the positive i did manage to find a use for all the neat brass shavings and other colourful objects ive been collecting relentlessly- colorful chemical powders and even crystals

but- can i have some qualified guesses on how one can bring these waves to a stop? could something as simple as a metallic "bee-trap" work, like a bottle with a small hole in the top where the waves get in, but arent intelligent enough to get back out of again and the waves just clashes with each other until theyre neutralized? hm? legend has it you gotta fight fire with fire
some people have succeeded in using water however- whats the equal of water on fire with electromagnetic radiation waves? would we have to be looking at specific wavelenght to construct a working device?

since were talking about waves, i remember as a kid, throwing a big rock into a wave neutralized it- it would make the wave either tip over and die out or neutralize it before even forming, but this isnt quite water and the waves arent very visible

i believe this graph here explains how effectively various metals reflects electromagnetic radiation
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Reflectance-of-films-of-...

Twospoons - 21-2-2022 at 12:50

Graphite loaded paint is the cheap option. Its conductive and dissipative. I've used it as a 'bandaid' fix for EMC compliance in a commercial product, and the result was a rather astonishing 20dB reduction in emissions. (Thats a factor of 100 for those unfamiliar with dB)
EMC anechoic test chambers use carbon loaded conductive foam pyramids, backed with ferrite plates. They are big, and they are very, very expensive.

[Edited on 21-2-2022 by Twospoons]

unionised - 21-2-2022 at 13:15

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
so - EMF, electromagnetic radiation comes from many sources, if one worries of this type of radiation

Why?

wg48temp9 - 21-2-2022 at 13:58

The OP should read the wiki on the subject see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber#Radio-frequen...

MineMan - 21-2-2022 at 14:02

Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
Graphite loaded paint is the cheap option. Its conductive and dissipative. I've used it as a 'bandaid' fix for EMC compliance in a commercial product, and the result was a rather astonishing 20dB reduction in emissions. (Thats a factor of 100 for those unfamiliar with dB)
EMC anechoic test chambers use carbon loaded conductive foam pyramids, backed with ferrite plates. They are big, and they are very, very expensive.

[Edited on 21-2-2022 by Twospoons]


Does this mean graphite loaded paint makes a crude RAM stealth coating? I heard carbon nano tubes is what the F-35 uses?

Twospoons - 21-2-2022 at 14:54

I imagine the F-35 stealth coating would be specifically tailored to radar frequencies - hence the nano tubes.
Generally speaking a conductive, but resistive, material (ie more conductive than air, but more resistive than typical metals) will absorb EM waves and dissipate them as heat. How well it works will depend on a bunch of things - conductivity and thickness being two primary parameters. Graded conductivity is probably also helpful to reduce reflections, by matching the impedance of free space to the impedance of the dissipative material - this is one of the reasons for the cones in anechoic chambers.

Herr Haber - 22-2-2022 at 01:57

Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
I imagine the F-35 stealth coating would be specifically tailored to radar frequencies - hence the nano tubes.


Correct. This is also why Russian SAM systems have several radar types per battery.

It's also how this happened:
https://www.c4isrnet.com/intel-geoint/sensors/2019/09/30/ste...

The news are slightly overhyped though. During the first gulf war decades old French approach radars could detect the F-117. Same thing for the same reason with the F 35 and the German radar.
Furthermore, they could identify the F 35 because they knew they were there. Otherwise the radar operator could just have said "I believe something is coming our way" which in reality is not much.

You just cant be stealthy against everything from any direction (and I'm not even mentioning distance!).

unionised - 22-2-2022 at 03:21

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Otherwise the radar operator could just have said "I believe something is coming our way" which in reality is not much.

It's enough in a war zone.
If it's not ours, we shoot it.

Fantasma4500 - 22-2-2022 at 03:46

wiki page- very interesting, so the third image from top has the text with it "Minimization of the reflection of sound waves by an anechoic chamber's walls" - and this, minimization of reflection, would essentially equal destruction of the waves, or at least transformation into something else- and if so, what? heat?

now, im finding this right here, but i dont quite understand if this really does concern dissipation of the EMF waves?
https://web.mit.edu/6.013_book/www/chapter11/11.5.html

@twospoons as for the graphite coating, it wouldnt matter if you covered up the graphite surface with another layer of paint- does it have to be a surface coating?
as you mention ferrite on the back of these foam pyramids, magnets can work?
the waves gets compressed inbetween the pyramids, or do they get absorbed into the pyramids and then dissipated with magnetism?

interesting with these pyramid cones- so the woke folks were sort of right, but not really. i guess pyramid hat will become a thing eventually.

@unionised whether EMF is bad or not is controversial, but it may be related to drop in fertility and then theres a whole thing about tumors. personally ive felt major mental disturbance in strong EMF fields. as with any potential danger its best to be one step ahead. there are guidelines for safe exposure levels for a reason, supposedly.

sauveurdumonde - 22-2-2022 at 04:56

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
so - EMF, electromagnetic radiation comes from many sources, if one worries of this type of radiation


If by "worry about", you mean "this is going to hurt me", it's unlikely that they will unless you have a direct, high wattage RF beam directly pointed at your brain. But even then, this would be from heating the tissue. RF is non-ionizing.

Now, if this was for, say, protecting sensitive electronics for a more accurate reading, this would make more sense.
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


now, do that with a whole room and youre just trapping them

Well, no, not really. Metals do reflect but they won't reflect forever. Especially if the shield is grounded. I think the photons create an electric potential in the conductor. Someone please check my facts here if I'm wrong but I believe the photons (the EMF) is absorbed by the electrons in the conductor, and the electron is brought to a higher energy level which in turn is converted to an additional electron. I know more about the physical properties of photons than the quantum so I may be wrong. You should read up on the Photoelectric effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


would we have to be looking at specific wavelenght to construct a working device?



Not necessarily. In a completely closed box, no RF can escape. Even if the box had a hole in it, only the wavelengths smaller than that hole could leave it. Since the distance between atoms, well, exists, very high energy photons may pass through as their wavelength is very short. But this is in the x-ray/gamma range.

Wavelength in metres = 300/frequency in MHz
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

personally ive felt major mental disturbance in strong EMF fields


You may have a *psychological* phenomenon called Electromagnetic hypersensitivity, and I don't mean to say "it's all in your head" and call it a day, because I know you aren't experiencing this on purpose- but I can almost assure you that if someone simply told you the room was filled with EMF, you would feel it.


Twospoons - 22-2-2022 at 13:03

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


@twospoons as for the graphite coating, it wouldnt matter if you covered up the graphite surface with another layer of paint- does it have to be a surface coating?
as you mention ferrite on the back of these foam pyramids, magnets can work?



The graphite doesn't need to be the top coating.

The EMC ferrites use compositions designed for EM absorption, known as soft ferrites. Ferrite magnets are not the same - they use compositions with a high remanence, known as hard ferrites.
Two very different animals...
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


the waves gets compressed inbetween the pyramids, or do they get absorbed into the pyramids and then dissipated with magnetism?

interesting with these pyramid cones- so the woke folks were sort of right, but not really. i guess pyramid hat will become a thing eventually.


The array of pyramids acts as an impedance transition between free space (377 ohms) and the resistance of the material they're made from, so at some point the EM energy sees a matched load and gets absorbed. Look up transmission line theory if you want to get into the math and physics.

There's nothing magic about the pyramid shape - any array of long pointy shapes would work. Its just that a square base pyramid is easy to make and convenient for tiling across a wall without leaving any gaps. Triangular or hexagonal prisms would work just as well. A wedge shape works too - it doesn't have to be a regular pyramid.

The resin pyramids full of metal shavings are nothing but mystic nonsense designed to separate the gullible from their money. They achieve nothing, apart from looking pretty.
Quote: Originally posted by sauveurdumonde  


Not necessarily. In a completely closed box, no RF can escape. Even if the box had a hole in it, only the wavelengths smaller than that hole could leave it.



Yeah, uh, not strictly correct. A closed superconducting box would block all RF frequencies (right down to DC !) but with metals theres always penetration into the metal. This is related to the skin effect - its a decaying exponential, which means there will always be a tiny bit that gets through.
Same with holes - bigger waves can penetrate a hole, though they will be attenuated. The rule of thumb used in EE is no holes bigger than 1/20 of the wavelength of the shortest wave you want to block.

[Edited on 22-2-2022 by Twospoons]

Rainwater - 22-2-2022 at 18:46

Dealing with intrinsically safe communication, I have to fight emf, static discharge, and what we term as auto-magnatisium.
( When an ungrounded, electrically isolated, conductor, becomes magnetized)

Think of emf as any other source of energy. As it moves through space and matter, it encounters resistance that will convert its energy into a different form until it is completely disapated. Either my dilution or resistance.

Most of the equipment i install, is super sensitive hall effect sensors. Able to measure a magnetic field up to 16 meters from the detector and determine the distance to 0.1mm. (Not as exciting as it sounds)

The easiest way to eliminate emf is to block it outright using a thick substrate.
0.5~1 meters of dirt will do a good job. 4 meters and 99% of radio transmissions are gone.

The next method is shielding. Simply encase your component in a conductive barrier. Google "Faraday Cage".

Next thought is what type of emf are you dealing with?

For example, Dirt will block higher frequency transmissions and will skeew and shift fm modulations but not pulse width transmissions or am transmissions.
(It will block am but not as good as fm)

A 1mm thick aluminum faraday cage will block 50/60hz interfaces better than your favorite radio station.

I use shielded housing to protect my equipment and shielded cable to help protect my signals from interference.

1) If the shield is not grounded to an earth ground i can detect reflections(echo with phase shift) and amplified harmonics of emf sources in the area, as well as my deired signal with the same refilections and harmonics.
I actually use the reflection magnitude to measure my cable length. Longer the cable, the greater the phase shift.

2) if both ends of the shield are grounded. This causes the shield to begin acting like an antenna with gain.
This increased distortion of the desired signal
As well as strengthen emf interference

3) by properly grounding 1 end of the shield, providing no ground ring, I can eliminate noise by 60-120db

The next thing to look at is the source of the emf.
Rf strength gets weaker with distance at a non linear rate.
Signal strength reduction at a given distance will be more than doubled at twice that distance.

Say you lose 1% of signal strength over a mile. You should expect more than 3% of signal loss at 2 miles. 7% at 3 miles.

So, if you can reduce the strength of the signal by a given amount at 1 meter from source. The reduction will have a greater effect over distance than if the rf strength is reduced by the same amount at 10m from the source.

At your item, if the shield is 100mm away, it will provide more protection than if it is 10mm away

Next is natural capacitance. All materials have it. Anything with a physically defined structure. And some gases.
The more layers a given material has, The more capacitance it has.

Say you use a piece of aluminum foil to shield your item. Ok.
But you want the shield thicker. Because the thicker the conductor, the more energy it can channel away from your item, and the less emf it will be exposed to.

So you put 3 layers on it. Thus, the total conductive of the shield has increased, so has its capacitance. Because of this, higher frequency will now more easily pass through your shield instead of being absorbed by it.

I hope this was on topic.

[Edited on 23-2-2022 by Rainwater]

mysteriusbhoice - 22-2-2022 at 20:43

lol im gonna make a funny guess that this device can be repurposed to steal power from high voltage power lines by lining the ground with it and hooking the wires up to some step down transformer then to some batteries/trailer.

Fantasma4500 - 23-2-2022 at 11:46
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

personally ive felt major mental disturbance in strong EMF fields
[/rquote]

You may have a *psychological* phenomenon called Electromagnetic hypersensitivity, and I don't mean to say "it's all in your head" and call it a day, because I know you aren't experiencing this on purpose- but I can almost assure you that if someone simply told you the room was filled with EMF, you would feel it.




i would say plausible if it wasnt because i was feeling it before i was even aware, it was quite something. i was practically unable to think and its few times ive had anything coming remotely close to it, ive never been quite good friends with electronics.

anyhow so- the EMF trap, of course.. the waves have to get in there first, which requires a hole big enough for them to get in, and then they would have to get stuck in some sort of geometry making it very unlikely that they could exit from again, supposing that they skip off - lets say, if they impact a surface at 45 degrees- that they also leave that surface at the opposite 45 degrees, if you can say it like that in math terms


@twospoons speaking of "ferrites" not being magnets, i just whipped out my 3kg neodymium magnet which found me a few years ago
my PC is a quite stable source of EMF, just EMF meter laying on desktop it explains 60 units +-5
i was able to affect this number as much as quadrouble it if i placed the magnet inbetween the meter and the computer, it seemed to intensify the signal the most when being just inbetween the two

as for the epoxy resin pyramids- many of them include some metal spring, usually copper, so for the lazy and impressionable person it would make plenty enough sense to invest money into

@rainwater
yes faraday cage, its used in microwaves and aluminium is typically what they use, infact if you wrap a phone in 3 layers of aluminium foil youre typically unable to call it, the older phone models seems to be easier to plug out like this
this also relates to what twospoons explained about hole size and blocking EMF waves

as for EMF - really anything generated by electronics, coming from electrical sockets (surprisingly this is downed a lot when you simply hit the switch on an electrical socket that isnt being used), wifi and similar is probably the main concern- but also very much EMF generated inside any normal house - im not quite sure what wavelenghts phones and wifi emit, i believe the wireless communications wavelenghts are getting smaller, 3G, 4G, 5G and eventually 6G

you mention grounding, in what sense grounding, like leading it back into electric socket as with the ground on most modern cables have?
"Rf strength gets weaker with distance at a non linear rate." a slight bit offtopic, theres a term for exponential, but there isnt yet one for the inverse of exponential? last time i talked to someone about this we arrived at the conclusion that both decrease and increase is exponential

and, as for grounding- if one was to ground a 1x2m aluminium plate just in the middle of the room, that thing would essentially suck out all the EMF waves that impacts it- and you could maybe even pump all that energy into something as a bonus?

now since you work with sensitive electronics, ive noticed that if i put bodyparts closer to an EMF generating device, then suddenly EMF meter will go crazy if i put some entirely different bodypart near it, does it just magically absorb into your body or is this a glitch in how EMF meters work? i did notice what you were explaining with EMF transmitting through cables, im kind of curious as for what levels an industrial welding machine puts out as ive been welding some .. tank-heavy metal objects together, sometimes with the welding hose wrapped around me like a hungry snake. back in time one specific welding machine- if workers did this it would end up killing them- something about it would syncronize their heartbeats- so when they would stop welding they could faint and die as their hearts would stop


@mysteriousbhoice i mean, thats an honorable idea, but with all the 5G devices installed, and the fact that a 5G capable phone will actively- even without sim (and battery?) seek the 5G signal- not knowing how strong this is compared to power lines, but probably quite strong- i think this would be the easier way to charge your batteries, or tesla or whatever. or pockets.

Deathunter88 - 23-2-2022 at 12:17

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


@unionised whether EMF is bad or not is controversial, but it may be related to drop in fertility and then theres a whole thing about tumors. personally ive felt major mental disturbance in strong EMF fields. as with any potential danger its best to be one step ahead. there are guidelines for safe exposure levels for a reason, supposedly.


Um, no. Whether EMF harmful or not is only "controversial" in the pseudoscience community. What you need to do is see a psychiatrist, not ramble on some internet forum about building a faraday cage.

Twospoons - 23-2-2022 at 12:31

To be fair to Antiswat, there are people sensitive EMF. Just far fewer than people who think they are sensitive to EMF.

I'm a little suspicious of this EMF meter you keep referring to. In the electronics game we would normally use a spectrum analyser to measure field strengths, usually in units of µV/m ( or dBµV/m because logarithmic scales are more useful for these measurements). These devices are eye-wateringly expensive, because they are complex and carefully calibrated (and because theres often a label on the front that says "Rhode and Schwartz" :D).

So what exactly is this meter you are using? What frequency range does it cover? How does it do its measurements (thats critical to correct usage)? And how has it been calibrated?

Grounding. *sigh* why is it there are so many people, especially EEs, that think there is this magical place where you can endlessly dump electrons and they just disappear? "ground" is merely a reference point against which other measurements are made, and it can be anywhere you choose. Everywhere else is "not ground", even if you connect it to "ground" with a big fat wire. Current always flows in loops, even though parts of the loop may not be readily apparent.

Dont worry about 5G - its a short range system. The electric fields off your mains wiring will be far higher.
If you really want to charge batteries off free EM waves, use a solar panel. Theres far more energy floating about in the visible spectrum than in the GHz region.

[Edited on 23-2-2022 by Twospoons]

Rainwater - 23-2-2022 at 18:33

I'm not sure what an emf meter is, to be honest.
You got spectrum meters, wide band receivers, narrow band receivers, and oscilloscopes.
I'm assuming this thread is leaning toward the aluminum hat prospective, but im stuck in the electronic aspects of emf.
Electro magnetic forces

Most recivers use some form of amplification of signal, which can be affected by stationery magnetic fields. If you could provide details about your meter (make, model, bandwidth, unit type) i could better explain what you're seeing and help you analyze the data collected.

If your observing an increase in "emf units" because you place a permanent magnet near your meter, that would suggest the meter is of the wide band type using an opamp and trigger circuit to count emf pulses. The opamp circuit has a feed back resistor, which will be used to calibrate the circuit gain, inductors and capacitor select the bandwidth of the receiver, and the position of the center point on the spectrum.

The wire of the circuit acts as an inductor with current passing through it. Current passing through an inductor is directly effected by magnetic fields. Both moving and stationery. Google "Hall Effect"
The magnet may be holding the signal voltage closer to the trigger threshold which would increase the counter.

All in all this type of detector will not accurately tell you the strength of the emf exposed to it. As it is not measuring the strength of the emf but the number of pulses counted per interval. These are very easy to make and are commonly known as "dummy sticks" or "contactless voltage detectors"

The sensations felt by emf are based on magnetic flux density. The conductive traces in your body are excited by induced current. For example, If you're near a lighting strike (500m or less)
You will get about 0.5 seconds of sensation before the strike. (Hair standing on end and visual arcs)
The same can be felt near high voltage equipment (>400vac)
A similar feeling can be felt near high current devices such as welders. This is due to the capacitance of the body absorbing voltage induced into the iron in your skin and blood. Same as when you get shocked by a door.

Cell phones, amateur radios, desktop computers do not produce strong enough emf to create a sensation.
Quote:
​as for grounding- if one was to ground a 1x2m aluminium plate just in the middle of the room, that thing would essentially suck out all the EMF


No. But if the plate was directly in-between your meter and emf source, blocking line of site, it would reduce the emf reading.
Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  

Grounding. *sigh* why is it there are so many people, especially EEs, that think there is this magical place where you can endlessly dump electrons and they just disappear? "ground" is merely a reference point against which other measurements are made, and it can be anywhere you choose. Everywhere else is "not ground", even if you connect it to "ground" with a big fat wire. Current always flows in loops, even though parts of the loop may not be readily apparent.


Electrical circuits - you are correct. Tho Earth ground is common ground point do to its uses as the "ground" starting at the power plant, all the way to your outlet and every point in between. Unless an isolation transformer is being used.

Flux, not so much. Very very short reply, flux loops default to the strongest field present. In ambient area, that will be the earth. So earth ground is very effective.

Long answer. We may need to start another thread.
(Edit) better explanation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoise_(ground_system)

[Edited on 24-2-2022 by Rainwater]

[Edited on 24-2-2022 by Rainwater]

Fantasma4500 - 24-2-2022 at 08:41

"DT-1130 High and low frequency radiation meter electromagnetic radiation meter" is the model im using as "EMF meter"
Level: low frequency: V / m, high-frequency: - μW / cm2
Measuring time intervals: 0.4 seconds
Frequency range: 50MHz-2000MHz

so- even with "grounding" theres no real way others than to simply let the EMF run out because it impacts so much air, particles or structure that it loses its energy- and no real way to avoid it except for putting every electronic device into its own faraday cage- with pore holes 1/20 of its emitted frequencies

i should maybe clarify, EMF as in Electro Magnetic Frequencies, probably quote close to EMForces?
i dont quite get how a material can at the same time be conducting and reflective of EMF- wouldnt this be contradictory- or is it because these waves are to some extent conducted / absorbed and then later on decides to radiate/reflect back off?

Twospoons - 24-2-2022 at 12:53

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

i dont quite get how a material can at the same time be conducting and reflective of EMF- wouldnt this be contradictory- or is it because these waves are to some extent conducted / absorbed and then later on decides to radiate/reflect back off?



Ever see a reflection in a pane of clear glass? Same thing - some light goes through, some gets reflected. Or if you want to consider absorption, look at gloss black paint - some light get reflected, some gets absorbed. This happens any time you have an abrupt change in the properties of the medium a wave is travelling in.


Tried to look for info on your EMF meter : all I got was chinese sellers (this thing is about 6 bucks on Alibaba). Based on the price alone I would be highly skeptical of any numbers you get out of this thing. Nobody builds accurate RF measuring devices for that kind of money.

By comparison, the last spectrum analyser I owned was a TEK492, built in 1980, that I got on EBAY for around $2k. The list price in 1980 was $60k - about the same price as a house at that time. It had a span of 10kHz to 22GHz.

[Edited on 24-2-2022 by Twospoons]

[Edited on 24-2-2022 by Twospoons]

Rainwater - 24-2-2022 at 13:57

Found this. Its sold as a novelty item its just a wide band reciver hooked to a 8bit counter.
https://www.prc68.com/I/MeasuringEMFs.shtml#DT-1130


Screenshot_20220224-165234_Samsung Internet.jpg - 316kB

unionised - 24-2-2022 at 14:35

Quote: Originally posted by Twospoons  
To be fair to Antiswat, there are people sensitive

[Edited on 23-2-2022 by Twospoons]

really?
"A systematic review of medical research in 2011 found no convincing scientific evidence for symptoms being caused by electromagnetic fields.[2] Since then, several double-blind experiments have shown that people who report electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to detect the presence of electromagnetic fields and are as likely to report ill health following a sham exposure as they are following exposure to genuine electromagnetic fields, suggesting the cause in these cases to be the nocebo effect."
from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_hypersensitivi...

Incidentally, the clever thing about inward facing pyramids is that they don't need to be "tuned" to the wavelength you are seeking to absorb.
The same idea is used in some laser beam stops.
A stack of raze blades bolted together makes a very good absorber.





[Edited on 24-2-22 by unionised]

Twospoons - 24-2-2022 at 16:04

I was just going from distant memory that the double blind tests found a few people to be sensitive, but that most who claimed to be sensitive weren't.

I like the razor blade beam-stop idea - I have a 1.5W UV laser I will be firing up, once my safety glasses arrive, and I'm going to need a good beam-stop.

@Rainwater : nice find. Your google-fu is clearly better than mine :D And from those pics I would say my skepticism is well justified.

[Edited on 25-2-2022 by Twospoons]

Fantasma4500 - 25-2-2022 at 05:40

i know its a broken topic to talk on a science forum about electromagnetic sensitivity or anything else that would set you apart from the flock
i found out last year that my bodytemperature is a stable 36.1*C, had this confirmed as we had bodytemperature checks by routine due to something called corona
on my mothers side in my family we have always had some odd problems with electronics, when i was a child i remember walking into my parents bedroom, all home alone the TV would turn on by itself. when i got older i learned that this wasnt actually supposed to happen, since then ive just had many really bizarre happenings, i spent i believe the final count was 51 hours with help from 3 mechanics and 2 electricians installing radio in my car
it was as if every time we thought we had it figured out, something surreal just happened, like the wires switched around- the harness was butchered from previous owners. oftenly when i walk by a radio it will drop out of signal and even when moving back away from it again. my uncle has had the same thing with televisions and my mother has also had many lesser issues

im sure many life-long electricians have come across people who are simply cursed with electronics, and there are people who are really good with electronics. i know one guy who almost got himself killed with chemistry so far 6 times, but in electronics hes a genius.

now, ahem, back to the topic if i may.
https://emfwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/BBEG_2015_gu...
it could seem as if the DT1130 simply measures the middle one? which would for a very simple device also make most sense- kind of like when you buy "salt" and they dont give you silver nitrate, which technically is also a salt
the machine also starts making more noise once you hit 100 units which coincides with the chart supplied.

looking around at youtube for reviews it turns out people who hunt for ghosts also use these devices- let me clarify thats not my intention, i feel like i should maybe put that down aha.

i dont really mind the meter not being super sensitive as i dont really go for absolute null i just use it to get an approximate and maybe to see if i can construct something that will take care of the more intense electromagnetic radiation. its all about balance

on a different similar meter i had, i tested the ... "active field" of a VR setup, virtual reality goggles- it uses 4 sort of cameras to track movement of different devices you use to map you into an 3D environment, and even when it was off i believe readings were in the 600, where 100 is considered harmful. and that was when that thing was off, never got to test it when the whole thing was running, plausibly it would hit 2000
as we dont have much research on how this new technology affects people, i would basically consider all of this exposure an experiment- and any experiment requires a control group. and thats where i would like to "participate"

as for the foam pyramids, with carbon.. to act as conductive? the ferrite backplate must be doing something and since it at the end it sounds like it definitely absolves the waves somehow

Rainwater - 25-2-2022 at 05:55

As for the stuff that happened when you were a kid. Id say you need a qualified electrician.

As for the radio problems in your car, check your negitave battery terminal, make sure its clean and bonded good. Make sure your grounding array is secured properly. Tight and clean.
Make sure any after market electronics in your car have a dedicated ground wire that goes to the primary bond. Just bonding to the frame is not a good ground.
Use farriet cores on your dc inputs. Verify the load doesnot exceed the alternator potential. And discontinue any prescription not properly prescribed.
When installing electronics ensure your static has been discharged

Twospoons - 25-2-2022 at 16:30

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
\
on a different similar meter i had, i tested the ... "active field" of a VR setup, virtual reality goggles- it uses 4 sort of cameras to track movement of different devices you use to map you into an 3D environment, and even when it was off i believe readings were in the 600, where 100 is considered harmful. and that was when that thing was off, never got to test it when the whole thing was running, plausibly it would hit 2000
as we dont have much research on how this new technology affects people, i would basically consider all of this exposure an experiment- and any experiment requires a control group. and thats where i would like to "participate"


100 is considered harmful by who, exactly? And 100 what?
I think all you have proved is that this meter is not to be trusted.

All consumer devices must pass certain standards when it comes to emissions. FCC Class B in the US, CISPR 14 where I live or the European equivalent (EN61000 ?) elsewhere. You should note that these standards have nothing to do with safety, and are all about non-interference with other devices. Safety only kicks in at very high power levels - e.g. you wouldn't want to stand in front of a 20kW radar antenna.

Many studies of cellphone emissions have been done, and as far as I recall not one has found any effect other than slight heating. Given this is the most powerful transmitter most people own, and it gets used against the side of your skull, you'd think any health effects would be pretty obvious by now given just how many are in use.

Realistically there are far more dangerous things to worry about than EM waves e.g. driving a car.

unionised - 26-2-2022 at 06:07

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  


i found out last year that my bodytemperature is a stable 36.1*C,


That's pretty much the middle of the normal range for people.
Why mention it?


"In a diverse cohort of 35 488 patients (mean age 52.9 years, 64% women, 41% non-white race) with 243 506 temperature measurements, mean temperature was 36.6°C (95% range 35.7-37.3°C, 99% range 35.3-37.7°C). "
from
https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5468

Rainwater - 26-2-2022 at 06:26

After digging a little more into this meter it would be very easy to modify and add a speaker to it. You still would not be able to measure emf but you could hear the am frequency in the audible range. With a few dollars toward the purchases of a phase modulator, you could convert the inaudible frequencys in to the audible rance.
For about 70 usd you could purchase a "toner"
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=tone+generator+and+probe+kit

This will help you explore the world of flux around you.
There are dam useful for troubleshooting electrical installations.
You can learn alot about rf shielding and actually test the effectiveness of different designs as well as listen to chemical reactions.

[Edited on 26-2-2022 by Rainwater]

Fantasma4500 - 26-2-2022 at 07:43

@rainwater
youre saying wideband can not measure EMF?
https://www.narda-sts.com/en/wideband-emf/
i understand your logical approach and thats what i would normally do too, but when it comes to electronics im oftenly just having to let it go as "it is what it is", its not just a single handful of times ive watched an electrician lose their cool when electronics has acted funny around me "this has never hapenned before.."
now, humans do generate some electricity, so what are the odds that some of us puts out some kind of electricity that can make electronics become unstable? the topic is a dead end as theres an agenda set in stone to convince the world that everyone are completely equal and the same grey dull flesh and bones- i digress despite it being an interesting topic.

im absolutely not gonna respond to anything in regards to whether EMF is safe or not, theres safety guidelines to exposures for EMF for a reason, i didnt invent it and this whole thing still remains for some reason controversial. usually precaution is praized on this forum?

i appreciate your effort in bringing forth the toner, but im not obsessed with EMF- its simply a minor precaution i take into account with electronics, believe it or not i have yet to measure anything outside with this kinda device.
the thing on chemical reactions however is interesting, i assume any kind of energy formation would produce some kind of EMF like waves in a very low range? thats probably very useful, albeit glass can distort these signals..

unionised - 26-2-2022 at 08:31

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  

now, humans do generate some electricity, so what are the odds that some of us puts out some kind of electricity that can make electronics become unstable?

Zero.
Or people would have noticed.

Fulmen - 26-2-2022 at 13:26

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
the topic is a dead end as theres an agenda set in stone

Please, stop crucify yourself. There is no evil conspiracy here, just a profound lack of evidence.

Rainwater - 26-2-2022 at 13:49

I'm definitely not. For start, I've seen the effects of being electrocuted on my own body. Theirs noting more annoying than waving my hands over my keyboard and watching the type go nuts.
Or the tv remote.
(Narrowed it down to capacitive touch sensors) happens every time i get shocked. I don't know why

I would have to say that the hazards of non-ionizing radition are very minimal. Except for burns. Fire bad

Im an electrician by trade, engineer by school, and dumbass by birth. I've been exposed to every form of electricity produced in the USA. Even purple hazards. Sometimes on purpose, such as a safety demo, sometimes on accident like when i got turned into an over cooked roast a few Christmas ago.

Cell towers, radar stations, transmissions lines, I've climbed them all. Each has their own hazards and exposure limits. You will absorb more radiation sitting on a beach for a day than installing a 5G transmitter.

Besides emf is a fantastic subject. Its what pays the bills here. Politics to the side, keep the questions comming.

unionised - 26-2-2022 at 14:53

Quote: Originally posted by Rainwater  
I've seen the effects of being electrocuted on my own body.


No, you have not.
Electrocute is a combination of "electric" and "execute".
If you lived it wasn't electrocution.

Rainwater - 26-2-2022 at 14:56

Simple terminology amd spellcheck on my phone. Ive been shocked is what i was saying

Fantasma4500 - 2-3-2022 at 11:13

Quote: Originally posted by unionised  
Quote: Originally posted by Rainwater  
I've seen the effects of being electrocuted on my own body.


No, you have not.
Electrocute is a combination of "electric" and "execute".
If you lived it wasn't electrocution.



"electrocution (n.)
"execution by electricity," 1889, American English; noun of action from electrocute. Meaning "any death by electricity" is from 1897."

they did not specify which kind of death
it could be death of a few braincells
or even cells directly impacted by the electrical arc
it doesnt specify a whole living being as ending its living functions
so essentially, its possible that we are being continously electrocuted by foreign electronic energyforms- but in a very small dose so its chronic rather than acute and very obvious

Texium - 2-3-2022 at 11:38

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
it doesnt specify a whole living being as ending its living functions
so essentially, its possible that we are being continously electrocuted by foreign electronic energyforms- but in a very small dose so its chronic rather than acute and very obvious
Well I think that may be my cue to close this thread