Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Sodium Ion Battery

xSJF1414 - 15-3-2021 at 07:55

I am planning on making a Sodium Ion Battery for a school project however I do not know if it is possible. I just need to make a very small charge and it doesn't need to be small or very cost efficient. Does have any information about this being possible and/or how to make one, such as the electrolyte solution I would need, type of anode and separator I would need that would be available for a home chemist.
I should be fine with the sodium, I am going to use Nurd Rage's method to generate it.
Thanks a lot for any help in advance!

clearly_not_atara - 15-3-2021 at 09:04

How are you going to heat it?

xSJF1414 - 15-3-2021 at 11:25

Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  
How are you going to heat it?

I'm not sure, honestly I didn't know it needed heating, I've been reading up about it but I definitely do not have nearly as much knowledge as I need so I made this post to try and help this and to know if its too advanced to do at home.

B(a)P - 15-3-2021 at 11:51

I presume you are trying to make the equivalent of a lithium ion battery, but with sodium. The idea being that sodium and lithium are chemically similar therefore they should be somewhat interchangeable?
A decent amount of research has gone into this given the relative abundance of sodium as compared to lithium.
If this is the route you are after the chemistry is not trivial unfortunately. It seems that making sodium will be the least of your worries.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aenm.2020013...
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.0c02181#:~:text=The%20sodium%20ion%20battery%20(NIB,hinder%20their%20large%2Dscale%20applications.

You might also consider a sodium air battery
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9292/8/10/1201/htm#:~:text=Sodium%...


WGTR - 15-3-2021 at 12:39

Once upon a time, in a lab far, far away, I smeared some oxidized bits of tin/lead solder on the inside of a soda-lime glass test tube. I connected a wire to this solder, dipped the tube in molten sodium nitrate, and electrolyzed a thin film of sodium into the solder, right through the glass. After this I wrapped some adhesive-backed copper tape around the glass, connected a wire to it, and heated the tube with a heat gun. With a high impedance voltmeter (10 gigaohms input) I measured about 2.5-2.6V across the cell. I could only get 1uA out of it short-circuited so it wasn't a practical cell by any means, but it was neat to see the voltage that I expected.

I can't really explain how the cell worked from a chemistry perspective. Oxygen in the air around the copper tape may have had an effect. Maybe even the tape adhesive itself. It was just a fun evening experiment. If you are starting from sodium metal then you can just put the metal into the tube and not worry about electrolyzing molten nitrate.

j_sum1 - 15-3-2021 at 14:06

If this is a school project, I would consider something less ambitious but equally interesting.
I would suggest a zinc bromine cell except that you would have to work with bromine.

There are plenty of air batteries around.

xSJF1414 - 15-3-2021 at 15:34

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
I presume you are trying to make the equivalent of a lithium ion battery, but with sodium. The idea being that sodium and lithium are chemically similar therefore they should be somewhat interchangeable?
A decent amount of research has gone into this given the relative abundance of sodium as compared to lithium.
If this is the route you are after the chemistry is not trivial unfortunately. It seems that making sodium will be the least of your worries.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/aenm.2020013...
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.0c02181#:~:text=The%20sodium%20ion%20battery%20(NIB,hinder%20their%20large%2Dscale%20applications.

You might also consider a sodium air battery
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9292/8/10/1201/htm#:~:text=Sodium%...



I looked into sodium ion batteries and understand there are different problems when using sodium instead of Lithium, such as the material used for the anode and electrolyte solution. I'm looking into using sodium perchlorate as the sodium salt but I am not sure on the solvent to dissolve it in. However the idea of using a sodium air battery is very interesting and seems more do able, thanks.

xSJF1414 - 15-3-2021 at 15:43

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
If this is a school project, I would consider something less ambitious but equally interesting.
I would suggest a zinc bromine cell except that you would have to work with bromine.

There are plenty of air batteries around.


Its a project I'm planning to work on for a third party competition outside of school for fun and to help my UCAS for when applying for university. This means I'm working at home and I am uncomfortable working with bromine at my level of chemistry at the moment. However I could see if I can get my school to help but it would be easier for them to help if its seems like a developing field of research and might have key uses in the future. I haven't looked into them much yet and don't have that much of an idea on them. Thanks!