Sciencemadness Discussion Board

5-atz purchase in the US? Would authorities care?

densest - 26-11-2020 at 15:32

I'd like to get some 5-atz as a fireworks fuel. It's available online from US sources. Does anyone know if it's a material of interest to the various paranoid agencies? I'm not intending to turn it into anything else, but that's almost impossible to prove after the fact.

It can be synthesized by amateurs, I know. That takes time and effort I'd rather spend making little balls, shooting them up, and looking at pretty colored flames in the air.

I'm posting this in Energetic Materials because this is the only area that talks about tetrazoles significantly. I'll go to Acquisition if that's where I should ask.

Any clues or experiences? Thanks!

aromaticfanatic - 26-11-2020 at 16:30

I don't think so. I think what is more of concern is when people order large amounts of peroxide or secondary explosive precursors. If you're buying a small amount and it's just a precursor to some primaries I doubt they'd care.

Then again, if you are of interest to the government due to some terroristic tendencies or ideologies... different story.

I can't tell you if they'd care or not because quite frankly, they can check any purchase they want. If you are truly just going for some fireworks, don't have criminal intent (not just blowing up people, anything illegal would bring interest), and aren't a danger to yourself or others, then I doubt you will have trouble.

Ordering large amounts of AN, SA, nitrates, peroxide, etc. will raise attention and reasonably so.

You realize even if you turn it into something like silver nitrotetrazole (a powerful high explosive) it is still legal as long as you abide by the ATF's rules.

So short answer, probably not unless you are of interest due to affiliation, they have suspicion you are trying to hurt others, or if you have a criminal/mental record.

Deathunter88 - 26-11-2020 at 18:12

Mixing binary components together constitutes manufacturing explosives. Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a federal explosives license or permit.

Quote from ATF website.

[Edited on 27-11-2020 by Deathunter88]

aromaticfanatic - 26-11-2020 at 21:32

Quote: Originally posted by Deathunter88  
Mixing binary components together constitutes manufacturing explosives. Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a federal explosives license or permit.

Quote from ATF website.

[Edited on 27-11-2020 by Deathunter88]


Yes but beware of the other rules.

Can't manufacture in or I think even near a dwelling.
Can't store them.
Can't transport them.
Can't detonate them where it isn't your property (unless with owner's permission).
Making anything that could be interpreted as a destructive device is felony type stuff.
And there are some other smaller ones too.

densest - 27-11-2020 at 16:12

Thanks for the reassurances! I'm a bit paranoid, perhaps. I've seen fire marshals & ATF officials "interpret" regulations in unexpected ways. I don't want to go there.

I think I'm on a "mostly harmless" list - I've gotten some "Hold it... Oh it's you. Bye" . I'd like things to stay that way.

The 5-ATZ is for fireworks but isn't a common fireworks chemical. I -have- bought ingredients for display fireworks multiple times. Any -significant- use would be under appropriate licenses & permits. I just want to do small lab-scale tests undisturbed.

aromaticfanatic - 27-11-2020 at 16:45

Yea I think you are fine. In reality, if you are suspected of wanting to cause harm, I think your license would not have been given to you. Plus a little 5-ATZ is laughing stock compared to the people who order sodium azide or something even more dangerous in larger amounts. 5-ATZ is child's play compared to the stuff you can do with sodium azide and I haven't really heard of anyone getting a visit for ordering some of that. I could be wrong though.

Just don't keep any plans for malicious ideas around ;)

zed - 4-12-2020 at 15:15

Most things are OK in the U.S.. Possibly because Americans are reluctant to kill one another.

Some parts of the world, are much more restrictive.

It wasn't quite clear, if you are in the U.S..

If you are, it's easy, just call up the guys in Idaho, and ask 'em what's OK.

Ummmm. Actually, they usually explain the rules in print.

Doesn't mean you wont get a visit. But, if you are above board, it will probably be a "just checking in" visit.