Sciencemadness Discussion Board

The disappearance of cheap ebay laboratory glassware

Yttrium2 - 9-8-2020 at 15:38

There used to be all kinds of listings on ebay for cheap laboratory glassware, where did they all go, and when will they be back?


zwt2 - 9-8-2020 at 15:46

Let's see.
Global pandemic, trade wars, encroaching anti-intellectualism...
Take your pick.
When will they be back?
Someday, hopefully.

monolithic - 9-8-2020 at 16:48

International shipping is a mess, many sellers have shut down their eBay store or are coming back in limited capacity until things are back to normal. My favorite seller, deschem, was shut down for several months. They're back now but with smaller selections and slightly higher prices. I assume this is because deschem (and most Chinese chemistry sellers on eBay) are just resellers, they source from a small number of factories.

JJay - 9-8-2020 at 17:25

I don't see as much of the really cheap, low-quality stuff that arrives broken half the time. It will probably come back after the pandemic, but if not, it's not a huge problem TBH.

Yttrium2 - 9-8-2020 at 18:13

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I don't see as much of the really cheap, low-quality stuff that arrives broken half the time. It will probably come back after the pandemic, but if not, it's not a huge problem TBH.


broken half the time and not a big deal!?



whatever man


For those of us who value our money and our glassware, it is a big deal, what do you suggest doing?

zed - 9-8-2020 at 20:05

I ordered an inexpensive electrical adapter from China, months ago. I paid for it, but I don't expect I will ever receive it. Estimated time of arrival, keeps changing. When I bought it, the estimate was a few weeks plus.

It's been over a month, and estimated time of arrival is now months off.

Supply lines have broken down.

Even the U.S. mail is breaking down. A few months ago, it was better than ever. Now service is spotty.

Our new Postmaster general, is gumming up the works, possibly intentionally.

If you are in the U.S., expect improvement after our next election. Provided we switch to a president that isn't intent on dismantling our postal service.

Our relationship with China is strained. And, our own customs may be holding things up.

Now, personally I've never had an item from China, arrive broken. More likely, to be unsatisfactory, but not worth fighting over. Quality control ain't great. A sliver of metal embedded in a piece of glassware. Dunno. Will it break? Maybe not. But it makes me unhappy.

For now, I would suggest, buy nothing from China.

[Edited on 10-8-2020 by zed]

andy1988 - 10-8-2020 at 02:57

The U.S. threatened to leave the 'Universal Postal Union' in order to increase the amount it costs a U.S. person to buy something from China (a UN body with roots in 145-year-old treaty).

Quotes from the above article:
Quote:
"The agreement approved by the Universal Postal Union, now a part of the United Nations, in a meeting in Sweden will enable the Postal Service to set its own rates for inbound small packages [4.4lbs and less] and bulky letters starting in July 2020."

"The new agreement follows a memorandum Trump issued last year in which the president said other nations were unfairly receiving cheaper rates when sending small packages and bulky letters into the United States than postal customers shipping domestically."

"He explained the entire international community will be bound by the same structure."


My understanding:
This has to do with the Universal Postal Union classification of China as a 'developing nation' and thus subsidized postage from such developing nations by at the detriment of developed nations, in order to help developing nations. And they only reclassify countries every 10 years, the U.S. wanted a more immediate reclassification of China and threatened to leave the Universal Postal Union and take UN funding as a "stick" to get what they wanted in this "trade war".

There is also the removal of HK's special status so now U.S. tariffs will apply, so I imagine this has also disrupted supply chains.

[Edited on 10-8-2020 by andy1988]

JJay - 10-8-2020 at 03:17

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I don't see as much of the really cheap, low-quality stuff that arrives broken half the time. It will probably come back after the pandemic, but if not, it's not a huge problem TBH.


broken half the time and not a big deal!?



whatever man


For those of us who value our money and our glassware, it is a big deal, what do you suggest doing?


If you buy the slightly more expensive glassware from the more reputable suppliers, which seem to be operational, you receive higher-quality equipment that lasts longer. I know I don't like distended joints and bubbles in the glass. I have purchased maybe 20 pieces of the ultracheap stuff... half arrived broken, half broke, and one is a piece that has seen a lot of use (it's a pore plate funnel, and it has bubbles, but it's held up through hundreds of filtrations). Deschem sells for a slightly higher price, but I expect that it's higher quality and almost certain to arrive in one piece. And if it doesn't, Deschem isn't going to try to haggle over the refund.

Most of the time, you get what you pay for.

Boffis - 10-8-2020 at 06:06

I think the problem is that Ebay has become a portal for big business rather than as it was in the early days a portal for amateurs and second-hand dealers.

About 5-7 years ago I bought a lot of microchemical glassware and other equipment from someone on Ebay with a charity logo. When the stuff arrived it became apparent that the seller was a large London teaching hospital raising money for various charities. The equipment arrived in its original boxes, some of them very old, clearly old stock that is no longer used in modern medical research or what ever. I think that the realisation that there was a way to cash old or surplus stock in many fields lead even larger companies and institutions to use Ebay for this purpose resulting in a lot of quality material being available at low prices.

In the last 2-3 years these sorts of offers have become much less common and much of the secondhand laboratory glassware is now being offered by individuals who bought it from Ebay a decade ago and are now hanging up their lab coat.

Most of the glassware now being offered in the UK at least, is from China or India

macckone - 10-8-2020 at 07:06

Many american suppliers are also having issues because the raw glass tubing and joints are made in china and india.

Fyndium - 10-8-2020 at 08:50

Haven't noticed it to be honest. I've ordered literally dozens of packages due to having to refurbish my lab and most of them have arrived in record time. Median time for arrival has been around 10 days.

Only one package is missing.

I also have had zero breakages of glass.

[Edited on 10-8-2020 by Fyndium]

Yttrium2 - 10-8-2020 at 18:19

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I don't see as much of the really cheap, low-quality stuff that arrives broken half the time. It will probably come back after the pandemic, but if not, it's not a huge problem TBH.


broken half the time and not a big deal!?



whatever man


For those of us who value our money and our glassware, it is a big deal, what do you suggest doing?


If you buy the slightly more expensive glassware from the more reputable suppliers, which seem to be operational, you receive higher-quality equipment that lasts longer. I know I don't like distended joints and bubbles in the glass. I have purchased maybe 20 pieces of the ultracheap stuff... half arrived broken, half broke, and one is a piece that has seen a lot of use (it's a pore plate funnel, and it has bubbles, but it's held up through hundreds of filtrations). Deschem sells for a slightly higher price, but I expect that it's higher quality and almost certain to arrive in one piece. And if it doesn't, Deschem isn't going to try to haggle over the refund.

Most of the time, you get what you pay for.





Deschem is about the same as nanshin, I thought you were a talking about buying Corning or some other type class of glass that isn't cheap.


I'd say deschem is one of the cheaper brands, and they too dont have a lot of their inventory posted right now on ebay.

JJay - 11-8-2020 at 03:24

Deschem and Nanshin are cheap, but there's a lower tier... I've seen 3-neck flasks for $5, short path distillation heads for under $20, cheap soxhlets, $12 Dean-Stark adapters, etc. Right now, there's very little of that kind of stuff on eBay, but since it is typically low quality and arrives broken much of the time, I don't miss it much.

It looks like all of the essentials are there... is there anything in particular that you can't find?

Yttrium2 - 11-8-2020 at 19:45

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Deschem and Nanshin are cheap, but there's a lower tier... I've seen 3-neck flasks for $5, short path distillation heads for under $20, cheap soxhlets, $12 Dean-Stark adapters, etc. Right now, there's very little of that kind of stuff on eBay, but since it is typically low quality and arrives broken much of the time, I don't miss it much.

It looks like all of the essentials are there... is there anything in particular that you can't find?


My bad, it is nanshin that does not have a lot of their inventory posted on eBay at the moment. Not too long ago though, I'm pretty sure both nanshin and deschem were away.

Gone are the days of the uber cheap distillation kits.

Bubbles - 12-8-2020 at 09:34

When China was dealing with the virus and before it spread much, around February, I had some delays and 1 package which didn't arrive, but have ordered multiple times from nanshinglass without issues since. Only difference was that they started asking 5$ for shipping instead of nothing (probably a good thing, seems like more 'true pricing').

JJay - 12-8-2020 at 18:20

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Deschem and Nanshin are cheap, but there's a lower tier... I've seen 3-neck flasks for $5, short path distillation heads for under $20, cheap soxhlets, $12 Dean-Stark adapters, etc. Right now, there's very little of that kind of stuff on eBay, but since it is typically low quality and arrives broken much of the time, I don't miss it much.

It looks like all of the essentials are there... is there anything in particular that you can't find?


My bad, it is nanshin that does not have a lot of their inventory posted on eBay at the moment. Not too long ago though, I'm pretty sure both nanshin and deschem were away.

Gone are the days of the uber cheap distillation kits.


There's this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/500ml-24-40-New-Lab-Glassware-Kit-D...

The seller is reputable. I've bought from them before, and there were zero problems, and the items were high quality. I'd have to take a look through my payment history to be sure, but that looks like one of Deschem's accounts.

The price after shipping is a bit higher than similar kits were sold for at around Christmas time by other vendors, but it's still pretty cheap.

The bottom-end vendors have some distillation kits too, but they aren't much cheaper.

Yttrium2 - 12-8-2020 at 19:52

as far as true pricing i'm not to sure on the terminology

but I do know that price reflects scarcity

Frankenshtein - 9-9-2020 at 17:47

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  


There's this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/500ml-24-40-New-Lab-Glassware-Kit-D...

The seller is reputable. I've bought from them before, and there were zero problems, and the items were high quality. I'd have to take a look through my payment history to be sure, but that looks like one of Deschem's accounts.



I bought a set like this recently, Im not sure if it was the same seller though. High voltage supplies are also rare.

Maybe it's time to get a blowpipe

Dr.Bob - 14-9-2020 at 06:52

I realized that one reason that the amount of cheap glassware is down is that most companies in the US that where going to downsize has done so already, most between 2005 and 2015, and few are left to close. Big Pharma is a fraction of what it used to be, I would guess that 1/2 of research staff from year 2000 is no longer working. Most of that has moved to India, China, eastern Europe, and other places, some just contracted out to other US companies, but the carnage is mostly over, so much of the glassware that was being sold off from closed labs is now gone. There are still some new biotech companies popping up, which are buying up much of the cheap glassware left, but they are pretty much at a steady state now.

Just my thoughts after thinking on this and talking to the people I used to know in chemical research, most of whom are now retired, moved to other areas or unemployed. There are still lots of academic labs, government labs, and other contract labs left, but they are pretty stable and don;t tend to close as often, if an academic lab closes, the nearby students pick it clean in minutes...

Fyndium - 24-9-2020 at 12:46

Has anyone any experience on Deschem heating mantles?

MidLifeChemist - 24-9-2020 at 20:33

Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
Has anyone any experience on Deschem heating mantles?


I ordered a simple distillation kit from Deschem yesterday. Let's see how long it takes to get to the USA from China. But I didn't order a heating mantle. I'm going to try to survive with just a hotplate / stirrer for now.

B(a)P - 24-9-2020 at 22:16

Deschem can't ship to Australia because of our customs laws sadly. I have been on the hunt for a reducing adapter from 34/35 to 24/40 for a while now and they are the only ones that I have seen that stock one.

ArbuzToWoda - 24-9-2020 at 23:15

B(a)P!
https://sklep-chemland.pl/pl/szklo-laboratoryjne/nasadki-zla...

https://sklep-chemland.pl/pl/szklo-laboratoryjne/nasadki-zla...

24/29 is compatible with 24/40, there's not much difference.
They have a whole array of adapters. I'm sure they'll ship to Australia if you contact them by email and ask nicely. The prices are miniscule (what is it, like 4 euros?)

Regards

[Edited on 25-9-2020 by ArbuzToWoda]

[Edited on 25-9-2020 by ArbuzToWoda]

B(a)P - 25-9-2020 at 00:11

Thanks, I had no idea 24/29 and 24/40 were compatible!

nzlostpass - 25-9-2020 at 00:37

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Thanks, I had no idea 24/29 and 24/40 were compatible!


The 24 is the angle and the 40 or 29 is the length so they dont seal perfectly due to being diff lengths but do fit. Depends what your use is.

What we need here is someone who can receive and reship items like this to countries that the vendors wont ship to.
I struck the same thing from a chem company in usa....they would sell to me but I had to get someone in usa to receive it and resend to me, which I knew noone so couldnt go ahead.
Obviously this person w/could be rewarded for their service.

ArbuzToWoda - 25-9-2020 at 00:41

Huh? There are many cheap companies that do that. That is the most accessible one, I believe: https://www.myus.com/
You just ship it to their address, they ship it to you. Simple and cheap.

B(a)P - 25-9-2020 at 01:27

Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


The 24 is the angle and the 40 or 29 is the length so they dont seal perfectly due to being diff lengths but do fit. Depends what your use is.



Mind blown, all this time I thought one was a diameter and the other the length. Makes so much more sense........

Fyndium - 25-9-2020 at 01:35

I discovered this by accident by ordering a pile of glassware with 24/29, 24/40 joints and noticed when you fit /40 male into /29 female it sinks deeper. The angle of the cone is the same so they fit good enough for everything I've faced so far, including vacuum. The only instance you could in theory face an issue could be a very tight fitting part that has something directly below the joint, hence the 40 male could fit just a bit too deep. Haven't had this issue so far though.

Same thing with 29/32 and 29/42. Generally it seems that as long as the first number is same, it fits. In a world of units we have long tons, short tons, imperial tons and then metric tons. You learn to use the MT unit quickly when dealing with overseas suppliers, otherwise you quickly see you are almost 100kg short and they wash their hands "you said tons, not what type of".

And yeah, those middle man companies ship stuff around regional restrictions, as long as the stuff itself is legal.

B(a)P - 25-9-2020 at 02:36

Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  


And yeah, those middle man companies ship stuff around regional restrictions, as long as the stuff itself is legal.


Have you tried using them? I am guessing the Australian import laws would mean third parties could not help. Or its it that because the product is lawful they can send it as a gift?

Fyndium - 25-9-2020 at 06:03

Not me, but my friend ordered stuff from US ages ago, some stuff that was shipping only to states. But for AUS things may differ, their customs are known to be PITA. My country allegedly also has strict customs, but I have found that this is more of an scare tactic. Only god knows what I have imported over the decades and it leaks like a chinese vacuum desiccator.

I believe they have their own no-go lists which they just don't accept in any ways, and after that, they have the liability clause that you are responsible for everything and pay their huge fees if they face any issues.

Chemetix - 25-9-2020 at 21:42

You can always ask your local glass blower, we often have old second hand stuff going cheap. Our made to order items like adapters are going to be cheaper than dealing with a large supplier who is probably one of several middlemen. I'm in Aus, I'm friendly to the SM community and like to support enquiring minds.

B(a)P - 26-9-2020 at 00:40

Thanks @Chemetix! If I knew I could get this custom made locally that is the first place I would have gone. Can you tell me your company so I can place an order or do I come direct to you?

monolithic - 26-9-2020 at 09:02

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Deschem can't ship to Australia because of our customs laws sadly. I have been on the hunt for a reducing adapter from 34/35 to 24/40 for a while now and they are the only ones that I have seen that stock one.


Deschem in particular or all Chinese suppliers? I think Extractions&Ire (YouTube) gets all of his equipment from China without issue and he's based in Australia.

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by monolithic]

Herr Haber - 26-9-2020 at 10:18

I've seen Deschem's packaging in many people's videos. Always makes me smile :)

ChemichaelRXN - 27-9-2020 at 10:04

Yes, Deschem is amazing...I order a lot of my glassware from him. I hope he continues the great work.

Fyndium - 27-9-2020 at 10:22

All the vendors have packaged their stuff very well. They are either in styrofoam boxes wrapped in bubble wrap, and Deschem uses those custom cut blue urethane sheets and tapes the glass (in cellular plastic) directly to the walls of the package. Zero breakages with them so far. Deschem is only vendor who manages to get all the stuff to me in 1-3 weeks, the other can easily take much more than a month.

Only from other vendor I got some broken glass tubes which were just in bubble wrap in a letter, but got prompt full refund.

B(a)P - 27-9-2020 at 12:23

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic  


Deschem in particular or all Chinese suppliers? I think Extractions&Ire (YouTube) gets all of his equipment from China without issue and he's based in Australia.

[Edited on 9-26-2020 by monolithic]


When some (but not all) Chinese suppliers, including Deschem, list there items on Australian ebay the shipping comes up as > $1,000 US. When I have enquired about it they have responded that Australian customs does not allow them to send certain items into Australia. I would be very interested to hear from anyone in Australia that is still able to purchase from them.

Important change from 1 July 2021 UK/EU

Mush - 24-10-2020 at 03:26

eBay alerts sellers on UK & EU ecommerce VAT reforms

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=15...

Texium - 24-10-2020 at 06:30

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


The 24 is the angle and the 40 or 29 is the length so they dont seal perfectly due to being diff lengths but do fit. Depends what your use is.



Mind blown, all this time I thought one was a diameter and the other the length. Makes so much more sense........
The first number is the diameter at the top of the joint, but they all taper at the same angle, so pieces of any length are compatible as long as they are the same diameter (with a few exceptions: a 24/40 condenser might not fit into a 24/29 vacuum take-off adapter since the male joint will likely be unable to go in all the way, due to the geometry of the adapter).

nzlostpass - 24-10-2020 at 21:58

Quote: Originally posted by Texium (zts16)  
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
Quote: Originally posted by nzlostpass  


The 24 is the angle and the 40 or 29 is the length so they dont seal perfectly due to being diff lengths but do fit. Depends what your use is.



Mind blown, all this time I thought one was a diameter and the other the length. Makes so much more sense........
The first number is the diameter at the top of the joint, but they all taper at the same angle, so pieces of any length are compatible as long as they are the same diameter (with a few exceptions: a 24/40 condenser might not fit into a 24/29 vacuum take-off adapter since the male joint will likely be unable to go in all the way, due to the geometry of the adapter).


You are correct, I remembered incorrectly.

saphireblue - 25-10-2020 at 00:17

This might be slightly off topic, but does anyone else in Australia get rather large postal rates when looking at Deschem on ebay?


deschem postage.bmp - 3MB

saphireblue - 25-10-2020 at 00:19

oops! sorry for big picture...

B(a)P - 25-10-2020 at 00:20

Yep I get the same. When I questioned it they said they can't ship to Australia because of our import law.

Edit - See my post, just a few above

[Edited on 25-10-2020 by B(a)P]

Dr.Bob - 25-10-2020 at 06:09

Amazon just also said that sellers need to deal with VAT taxes in the UK, so I am giving up on any shipments to the EU, as the amounts are different in every country, and are billed to me after the sale, so I cannot know what the cost will be when I sell. So I have a book sold to Norway come with a $100 impoirt fee, which was almost the entire cost of the book sale, so i basically lost money onthe sale after shipping and fees. And since Amazon paid the fee "for me" to Norway, I had the money taken from my sales without even knowing it would happen. That is a nightmare to deal with.

What made China so cheap for a while was the subsidized postage of only a $1 per item under a certain weight (not sure if 1 or 4 pounds, a fraction of my costs for even a local package), as well as almost no import fees in the US. Since everyone else is charging fees, taxes, or duties on imports, its no wonder that the US is going broke, when everyone taxes ours sales, but we didn't used to do that on smaller sales. But that just limits the ability of small businesses to sell overseas. I know that I cannot do international sales now to any real degree.

Mush - 25-10-2020 at 11:15

Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob  
Amazon just also said that sellers need to deal with VAT taxes in the UK, so I am giving up on any shipments to the EU, as the amounts are different in every country, and are billed to me after the sale, so I cannot know what the cost will be when I sell. So I have a book sold to Norway come with a $100 impoirt fee, which was almost the entire cost of the book sale, so i basically lost money onthe sale after shipping and fees. And since Amazon paid the fee "for me" to Norway, I had the money taken from my sales without even knowing it would happen. That is a nightmare to deal with.

What made China so cheap for a while was the subsidized postage of only a $1 per item under a certain weight (not sure if 1 or 4 pounds, a fraction of my costs for even a local package), as well as almost no import fees in the US. Since everyone else is charging fees, taxes, or duties on imports, its no wonder that the US is going broke, when everyone taxes ours sales, but we didn't used to do that on smaller sales. But that just limits the ability of small businesses to sell overseas. I know that I cannot do international sales now to any real degree.


Yes, it is going to be a nightmare for everyone. I do order time to time used books from the USA. I expect sharp increases in price from the following summer.
Combined with covid madness, timing could not have been worse to introduce such law.

[Edited on 25-10-2020 by Mush]

Fyndium - 25-10-2020 at 13:44

I'm totally *ked up if they stop shipping glass from China. The few european suppliers have only limited selection and they generally command around 400% higher price for similar stuff.

Antigua - 25-10-2020 at 13:58

Chemland ships glass cheaper than the Chinese and it's got more than you could think of. Just take a look at their site, the only problem is you've gotta pay for shipping from Eastern Europe.

Fyndium - 25-10-2020 at 23:59

Thanks for the tip, wasn't aware of this store before.

EDIT Ok, is there some catch here? The stuff is like 3 times cheaper than in China?

[Edited on 26-10-2020 by Fyndium]

monolithic - 26-10-2020 at 07:02

Quote: Originally posted by Fyndium  
Thanks for the tip, wasn't aware of this store before.

EDIT Ok, is there some catch here? The stuff is like 3 times cheaper than in China?

[Edited on 26-10-2020 by Fyndium]


The ground joint sizes are weird.

SecretSquirrel - 26-10-2020 at 09:31

WOW! Thank you for the Chemland store tip. Compared to the suppliers I've used before their prices are excellent.

@monolithic: Actually the gound joint sizes they offer are very common in Europe. 29/32 is as common in the EU as is 24/40 in the USA.

Fyndium - 26-10-2020 at 10:33

Yeah. 29* is the standard joint in Europe, so they hit right on spot with that.

24* is the standard in Anglo-American contries, as far as I know. Rest of the world comes along, and Chinese sell whatever sells.

I'm sad they have only 3-neck flasks with 14* side joints. Having one joint size helps tremendously when adding apertures like dropping funnels or thermowells. Neubert-Glas has these, but he does the bank job too.

outer_limits - 11-11-2020 at 01:37

Chemland is legit shop, there are no catches there. Almost all of my glassware (and other stuff( was bought from this shop. Very good quality and prices usually better than from ebay or aliexpress.

Unfortunately they don't have everything and I need to find somewhere 100-150mm vigreux column and short path condenser.

I don't have wait for the package as I used to while shopping on ebay or aliexpress (this one went terribly expensive - shipping costs are high as .... ) - the package is usually delivered two days after the payment was processed.

29/32 is the size that is very common here. But if you need 24/29 they also have the glassware of this size. If not - there are adapters that can be used as ultimate solution for this kind of problems.

Fyndium - 11-11-2020 at 03:54

Yep, about half of my stuff is 29 and half is 24, latter being more common recently. I pretty much routinely mix them and I've got a dozen of adapters. Biggest issue is that my fume hood is not tall enough to fit all the apparatus.