Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Legal Alkaloids to Practice Extractions

Legal Alkaloids to Practice Extractions

FrickinA - 30-1-2011 at 23:16

I want to practice extractions, and I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to an alkaloid/plant that is legal and extractable with A/B or STB techniques. Nicotine is the only thing that comes to mind and from research it seems like extraction isn't very easy, not to mention the toxicity of nicotine itself.

If anyone has any ideas of alkaloids to experiment with extracting, thatd be awesome.

starch - 31-1-2011 at 02:03

buy some teabags

Saerynide - 31-1-2011 at 04:17

Black pepper?

SWilkin676 - 31-1-2011 at 06:10

If you want to get technical about it there may not be any such thing as a legal extraction of alkaloid if you lack certain licenses. Most States require licenses for manufacture of pharmaceuticals which given the weird way laws get applied could be considered if they really wanted to harass you.

Most colleges have course materials online which would include A/B extraction labs for students. Google it and you'll find ready made instructions and materials. Caffeine from tea is a common one.

The WiZard is In - 31-1-2011 at 13:02

Quote: Originally posted by FrickinA

I want to practice extractions, and I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to an alkaloid/plant that is legal and extractable with A/B or STB techniques. Nicotine is the only thing that comes to mind and from research it seems like extraction isn't very easy, not to mention the toxicity of nicotine itself.

If anyone has any ideas of alkaloids to experiment with extracting, thatd be awesome.

Go for the nicotine, you can make nicotine sulphate to kill bugs
in your garden. Nicotine sulphate is de règle for killing turtles.

P. 271
2. Nicotine 95 per cent. — Inject intrapleurally or into mouth.
[Put on cotton ball then into mouth.] Excellent for turtles,
1 ml is usually effective.

P. 25
Chelonia

3. Introduce a strong solution of nicotine in to mouth.

Wagstaff & Fidler
The Preservation of Natural History Specimens
Volume 2
Philosophical Library
1968

djh
----
British understatement —

Squamata

(a) Killing

5. Wrap head in either cotton-wood or a handkerchief and strike
it sharply against a hard object [Presumable the head of the
idiot who lent you their handkerchief!] — invariably damages
the skull.

loc. cit.

starch - 1-2-2011 at 01:40

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

If you want to get technical about it there may not be any such thing as a legal extraction of alkaloid if you lack certain licenses. Most States require licenses for manufacture of pharmaceuticals which given the weird way laws get applied could be considered if they really wanted to harass you.

Most colleges have course materials online which would include A/B extraction labs for students. Google it and you'll find ready made instructions and materials. Caffeine from tea is a common one.

so so true, very good point

but in saying that one would have to be extracting say caffeine and selling it or giving it away as a substance for human consumption.... if one was just extracting it for experimental sakes, and just flushing or using for further experiments i cant see this as a problem ( not saying it wont be a problem)

intent intent intent

Sedit - 1-2-2011 at 11:07

While Caffeine is a legal alkaloid to practice on I wouldn't really suggest it because purine substates do not respond how most alkaloids do to extraction procedures the same way meaning all the practice in the world could be for nothing. If im not mistaken purines don't even respond to an acid/base extraction which is a vital part of many alkaloid extractions.

bahamuth - 1-2-2011 at 13:04

Harmalines might be legal where you are.

From the seeds of Peganum harmala you get a mix of harmalines, so it will give you the basics in A/B extractions, plus some quircks to resolve before you get a decent product.

And as a bonus, the salts of the alkaloid exhibit fluorescens in UV, neat stuff.

FrickinA - 1-2-2011 at 15:55

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth

Harmalines might be legal where you are.

From the seeds of Peganum harmala you get a mix of harmalines, so it will give you the basics in A/B extractions, plus some quircks to resolve before you get a decent product.

And as a bonus, the salts of the alkaloid exhibit fluorescens in UV, neat stuff.

This looks like an interesting idea and I will look further, a quick search seems to indicate that harmaline is not scheduled (U.S.), although it is psychoactive.

Thanks for the idea!

starman - 1-2-2011 at 17:53

It is also a potent MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) that will seriously potentiate ( possible fatal hypotensive crisis) many common drugs of abuse,or even such commonplace normally harmless components like tyramine in cheese. So take care if you "accidently" ingest some.

FrickinA - 1-2-2011 at 22:16

Quote: Originally posted by starman

It is also a potent MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) that will seriously potentiate ( possible fatal hypotensive crisis) many common drugs of abuse,or even such commonplace normally harmless components like tyramine in cheese. So take care if you "accidently" ingest some.

Yeah I dont plan on ingesting any, not even "accidentally." Its used in ayahuasca (sp?) to make the dimethyltriptamine orally active apparently? Either way the luminescence looks cool

bahamuth - 2-2-2011 at 09:04

Yeah the fluorescence is really cool.

Also, something quite peculiar, the different salts of the harmalines (HCl, H2SO4, AcOH etc) all have quite distinct wavelength emissions. On the pic. I posted, there is the sulfate salt IIRC, and possibly recall that the acetate salt gave a more "green" emission, all from the same UV source. Also, it will "quench" the fluorescence even in very low concentrations, mg/litre range. Potent fluorophore....

Planned to do a write-up on the procedure I did, but as it is psychoactive I figured it didn't belong here. Might be some info on the forum already though, if you search..

chemrox - 9-4-2011 at 18:03

Quote: Originally posted by SWilkin676

If you want to get technical about it there may not be any such thing as a legal extraction of alkaloid if you lack certain licenses.

This may be technically true but all of US law includes the element of intent though mistakes and misapplications occur. I wouldn't be scared off if your real intention is to learn and practice.

The more I study extraction the more complicated it get hence my recent Bilberry question. Anyway, commercially, caffeine is extracted by supercritical CO2. But any first year organic manual has a procedure for doing it with a solvent. Muscarine from aminita might be a fun experiment and would be legal almost anywhere. Try to isolate muscazone .. that's the really active one and not an alkaloid.

jon - 9-4-2011 at 18:50

if you really want to learn about the composition of plants duke's phytochemical database never dissapoints.

Polverone - 9-4-2011 at 18:53

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth

Yeah the fluorescence is really cool.

Also, something quite peculiar, the different salts of the harmalines (HCl, H2SO4, AcOH etc) all have quite distinct wavelength emissions. On the pic. I posted, there is the sulfate salt IIRC, and possibly recall that the acetate salt gave a more "green" emission, all from the same UV source. Also, it will "quench" the fluorescence even in very low concentrations, mg/litre range. Potent fluorophore....

Planned to do a write-up on the procedure I did, but as it is psychoactive I figured it didn't belong here. Might be some info on the forum already though, if you search..

That's interesting about the different salts emitting at different wavelengths. If this catches your eye I would love to see your planned writeup. As far as I can tell harmaline does not induce dependency, is not regulated in most countries, and is of very little consequence to the black market. I would be happy to see further informed discussion around harmaline here.

I will get on my soapbox for a minute to clarify policy here as I have tried to do many times in the past: I do not object to the discussion of CNS-active compounds in and of itself. I do object to people asking for hand-holding for making CNS-active compounds, particularly those that have already assumed some prominence on black or gray markets. I don't want SM to support or encourage lazy people who think of it as a resource to quickly get buzzed or get rich. I am happy to see scientific information from this vein shared when it is not in response to someone asking lazy or apparently profit-motivated questions.

I know that some members here have overzealously interpreted the restrictions to mean that all drug-related discussion is forbidden, and have silenced or chased off some good members who shared unselfishly. I hope that such overzealous members will realize that they are not helping me, the rest of the staff, or the forum as a whole when they disrupt discussions at the first mention of potentially drug-related chemistry. If you think a discussion is over the line, report it to moderators to check out. Don't preemptively disrupt it.

GreenD - 10-4-2011 at 19:11

Where I live we have alot of ginko biloba. I will be extraction ginkolides and bilbolides this summer.

The extraction here is very easy - you simply use methanol or ethanol, and concentrate it down to yield some pure 'olides.
Having said that there is no (or atleast equal in conflicting evidence that 'olides do any positive effects on the brain).

Second, you can set up steam distillation with aromatic compounds, flowers, tree buds, etc... I will be doing that as well (just for experience and SCIENCE~!)

Lastly - go and do it on any plant. Really. I guess if you are trying to harden your technique you would want a substrate that is sure to have alkaloids, but once you get good - go see if you can find plants with extractables. Who knows what is out there. There are too many plants for us to know active compounds in all of them.

I would say phalaris grass, because it is undoubtedbly within a mile of your house but that is /extremely/ illegal, and it has the strong toxin bufotenine.

But. I would really go and try things like willow bark, budding trees, newly formed sprouts, aromatic plants, spices and herbs, the list is endless really. I will be doing the same

Oppenheimer - 20-6-2011 at 09:26

But how do you tell if you have extracted anything? Smell alone might be an indication of something besides your solvent being in your distillate....but there could be 10's to 100's of compounds in there.

Dry the distillate and crystallize? TLC place?

White Yeti - 29-7-2011 at 13:13

You could try extracting caffeine from coffee and tea. Theobromine is another legal alkaloid. You can extract it from chocolate to poison your neighbour's dog that won't stop barking at night >