Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Frightning chemicals on ebay

majortom - 29-9-2010 at 18:10

I have been working on getting paraformaldehyde, I don't really want to work with the fish tank solution. I checked on ebay and got two sources. One is a lot cheaper, purity is not specified, but I don't think that it is much of an issue as most impurities would be left behind upon monomerization. I was quite happy untill I saw the other reagents he was selling.

3,4-dimethoxy benzaldehyde
vanillin ethyl ether
methylenedioxy-methylhydrocinnamic aldehyde
melatonin
phthalic anhydride
p-methoxy benzaldehyde
p-methyl benzaldehyde
3-methoxy-4-ethoxy benzaldehyde
cinnamaldehyde
tryptophan
plus a few other more innocuous chemicals

:o

Wow. I am usually not one to say this, but what is this guy thinking? Of course he doesn't go into specifics on his location, but all of these reagents are ridiculously cheap like 25 grams for $10 cheap. I am scared to even go near this guys innocuous items. It seems a little bit too suspicious to be real. I would never buy something like that, (I assume if you bought anything from him it looks bad by proxy) but I suppose I am posting this because it seems so ludicrous!

Has anyone seen anything like this before, It just amazes me that its on ebay! Why would anyone buy them?

[Edited on 30-9-2010 by majortom]

Rogeryermaw - 29-9-2010 at 18:19

i have seen diethylamine and diethylamineHCl for sale on ebay...looks like a sting to me. probably trying to see who is dumb enough to buy controlled chemicals without going through proper channels so they can make some easy busts.

zed - 29-9-2010 at 18:41

Nothing on that list is illegal to buy, possess or sell. Nor, is a permit required.

The 3,4-Methylenedioxy-Methylhydrocinnamaldehyde, ain't illegal.....But, it's pretty damn suspicious.

If you have nothing to hide, take your chances.

To sell diethylamine or any list 1 chemical, requires a license. Whosoever has such a license, must record and report their sales of listed chemicals. A "suspicious" request must be reported pronto.

Keep in mind, that suspicion is in the eye of the beholder.

Magic Muzzlet - 29-9-2010 at 19:16

Had experience with this source.
I really only see a problem with the methylenedioxy-methylhydrocinnamic aldehyde, but so what, just dont get it. Everything else is so common with the exception of the pure vanillin, ethyl vanillin etc. and I seriously doubt problems arising from ordering those...

They are obviously geared towards flavoring and scents. Plus some general lab chems. Just look at what other people are selling, borohydride, 3,4,5-TMBA, phosphorous acid and iodine. This source stands apart and look genuine to me. If they arent then I guess problems will be coming my way.

I say take advantage of the relatively good prices. But what do I know? :P

Chainhit222 - 30-9-2010 at 02:39

You are safe unless the vendor gets popped and is forced to give his manifest to the authorities :)

Synthettek - 30-9-2010 at 03:40

I've successfully purchased from this vendor, 2 seperate items, one of them being 2 units of his paraformaldehyde. they are legit, friendly and have good communication. I wouldn't worry.

mr.crow - 30-9-2010 at 06:26

I have used that seller and everything was great. He was very honest and had good communication when there was a delay.

No shipping of paraformaldehyde to Canada >: (

overunity33 - 30-9-2010 at 10:44

Saw a vendor on ebay selling Diethylamine hcl, Sodium Borohydride, h3po3, Propionyl Chloride. Supposedly in BC, canada. I emailed him and his response was emailed from a dedicated server company in Chicago, IL according to the header IP address. Not a good sign...

majortom - 30-9-2010 at 13:54

Of course it can just be billed off as a fragrance company, but how do you explain the notable lack of fragrance chemicals that can't be used for 'other' purposes? No ethylacetate, acetophenone, or the like? Of course the jurors don't know squat about that, as in the case of the experimenter who "accidentaly" made MDMA as a byproduct of some other reaction, and got aquited. I'm not interested in doing any sort of questionable chemistry, but I think that if you just bought paraformaldehyde and you have a record of buying vigreux columns, three knocked flanks and cold fingers that might raise a few eyebrows even so, of course if you ordered the methylenedioxy stuff and had a history of buying perfume bottles and ethyl agitate you'd be fine.

I'm not cheering for the dea or anything, I hate them for how they have killed chemistry with extensive watchlists (seriously, ethanol acetone and dilute hcl are on there) I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies, but It just seems like it shoots of a giant red flag to the DEA.

I think diethylamine and phosphorus acid are actually more likely to be used for something not illicit than propenylbenzene.

Rogeryermaw - 30-9-2010 at 15:46

@overunity33 that does indeed sound suspicious about the i.p. addy. not to be paranoid but you know the powers that be go fishing for the poor souls who don't know any better. we've all seen the horror story articles.

anotheronebitesthedust - 30-9-2010 at 23:59

The I.P. address was probably in Chicago because I always use Tor when responding to suspicious bait emails; whether they're from the DEA, the RCMP, or Sciencemadness internet sleuths.

peach - 1-10-2010 at 21:52

I entirely agree with Zed, even if it's THE POLICE on the other end, they're not going to give two shits if you're using it for something entirely innocuous.

People into all that photography, fragrance and soap stuff as they churn out drugs for the $$$ / POWA / kewlz are seriously misleading themselves. It wouldn't cut it with me, let alone a judge. For a start, it's certainly not in the spirit of things. The judges in the UK are certainly bothered about the spirit of things over the things on paper.

I'm considering actually asking the police round and getting a VAT code so I don't have to bother about any of this raid rubbish anymore. I've already spoken to the fire station up the road about having cylinders in the house; or rockets as the fire brigade see them. :P

[Edited on 2-10-2010 by peach]

madscientist - 2-10-2010 at 11:25

It is absolutely illegal to possess a lot of those things, even if they aren't controlled. They can nail you with the vague "possession of a precursor" laws or worse, "intent to manufacture."

undead_alchemist - 2-10-2010 at 11:44

Quote: Originally posted by overunity33  
Saw a vendor on ebay selling Diethylamine hcl, Sodium Borohydride, h3po3, Propionyl Chloride. Supposedly in BC, canada. I emailed him and his response was emailed from a dedicated server company in Chicago, IL according to the header IP address. Not a good sign...


Said seller of this is on this forum.

[Edited on 2-10-2010 by undead_alchemist]

Rogeryermaw - 2-10-2010 at 11:45

Quote: Originally posted by madscientist  
It is absolutely illegal to possess a lot of those things, even if they aren't controlled. They can nail you with the vague "possession of a precursor" laws or worse, "intent to manufacture."


absolutely correct. even if the books don't say it's a no-no you have to remember that here in the land of the "free" that every inmate in the prison system brings a fortune in tax money and you can't discount all the L.E. assholes and young judges who want to make a name for themselves and look like crusading heroes*cough*bullshit!*cough* who said that!??!!!?

jon - 2-10-2010 at 12:01

man i used to like the police you know some of thier earlier hits like "don't stand so close to me"
and "ill be watching you"
then i realized hey wait a minute maybe that's a vauge warning.
hmmm.
and just because the seller of this is on this forum what does that mean? a lot of L.E. is on this forum.

have it sent to your neighbors and look for the jumpout boys.

on the other hand i've oerdered sketchy shit it was'nt listed but sketchy enough to warrant investigation and i'm not calling with from a place that asks for collect call auth. and warns "this is a correctional institution"

[Edited on 2-10-2010 by jon]

[Edited on 2-10-2010 by jon]

Rogeryermaw - 2-10-2010 at 12:28

Quote: Originally posted by jon  


have it sent to your neighbors and look for the jumpout boys.



man that's harsh! funny as hell but harsh! i would rather handle my worst enemy myself than wish a visit from the swine on them. only good use for swine is next to eggs on a plate!

jon - 2-10-2010 at 13:40

it's a bit disrespectful to farm animals to call the police swine.

Rogeryermaw - 2-10-2010 at 15:50

Quote: Originally posted by jon  
it's a bit disrespectful to farm animals to call the police swine.


oh my lord!! i am truly sorry for that bit of insensitivity! sometimes we say horrible things before we think... pigs may roll in shit but i would never eat anything as dirty as a cop! thanks for catching me on that.:(

jon - 2-10-2010 at 17:33

no problem.
at least swine don't bust your door down and steal your freedom and property.

Contrabasso - 4-10-2010 at 14:01

Well someone on ebay uk was selling a box with one bottle of conc nitric and one of conc sulphuric, with the note that they would be correctly shipped.
Needless to say I didn't have the opportunity to check the driver's credentials, that deal seemed just too hot. Might as well send acetone and HTP together!

peach - 5-10-2010 at 12:07

Correctly shipped? Hmmmmmmm

If you check the terms and conditions for 99%+ of the couriers, none of them will accept acids or any other remotely dangerous chemical, including precharged lighters.

I tried asking a bunch of them for quotes to ship a 1l bottle of acid and they wanted something like £400 for a special driver to go and pick it up. There are ways to ship chemicals for £10, but it's not using regular postage services. At least, not legally.

dann2 - 5-10-2010 at 12:15

Hello,

Here's one that will frighten the life out of you!! Via the price!!!

36% HCl for the picking up (if your lucky and live in UK).


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hydrochloric-Acid-36-Brick-Patio-Clean...

Dann2

peach - 6-10-2010 at 06:52

God dammit! 2 hours away, and in exactly the opposite direction to the two hours I need to drive to pick something else up, that's even heavier than these. AND, I just emptied my bottle of hydrochloric.

However;
Quote:
Contains a blend of non-ionic surfactants, hydrochloric acid and corrosion inhibitors.


Making it a potentially bad choice for chemistry requiring any degree of precision or things like splitting phases.

It'd really needs redoing by dumping an equally large quantity of sulphuric on it and redissolving the hydrogen chloride that comes off, to get it nice 'n pure again. Or straight up distillation.

But 200l+ plus, yikes.

It would not surprise me if the person who buys that tries reselling it in liter bottles as reagent grade, without cleaning it up.

If I could easily get it to the house, I might be able to give it go. But moving, shipping and working with something like that won't be a.... barrel of laughs.



[Edited on 6-10-2010 by peach]

eBay

MadHatter - 7-10-2010 at 06:56

Always remember, that eBay = eSnitch. They'll turn over records to LEOs on request.

peach - 10-10-2010 at 09:25

Someone bought the acid.

I was very close to buying it (having found a cheap shipping option), but then I figured there wasn't really an easy enough way to get it back to 36% and clean; even distilling it, it wouldn't come back to the full concentration.

jon - 17-10-2010 at 10:42

speaking of e-snitch i tried to do some large transactions cash and carry off ebay and they wanted to pay auction fees and go through thier system which always piques my suspicions.
even offered more money as it was'nt the object nope nope they reply.
i just deal with trusted chemical houses.

peach - 18-10-2010 at 22:10

It's not that suspicious.

I offer to pay in cash all the time so people don't have the transaction charges to deal with. Or transfer directly to their bank account.

A lot of people don't want random people from the internet turning up at their homes, particularly if it's to do with chemicals or laboratory gear.

Others don't want the hassle of checking their bank accounts.

And others are using the checkout system for their record keeping, particularly the ones that are actual shops in real life and that need the invoices as proof of sale for the tax returns.

PayPal is an utter joke. I've spoken to a lot of people who've forgotten they have telephone / online banking. Something is telling me, a transfer directly between the banks is going to be more secure than the super secure service PayPal witter on about.

It's free. And if you pay the cash in, in person, to the teller, they'll give you a signed receipt from the bank. There will be no arguing over the validity of THAT in court.

eBay used to not accept PayPal for paying my seller fees, because of the ridiculous transaction charges. Now they own it, they not only accept it, they force me to offer it on every single auction and, for some of them, nothing else. Some of the categories they apply that to are equally ridiculous, I don't usually sell designer clothing, let alone knocked off designer clothing.

Forcing people to solely use the system they own, and charge for, is skirting the monopoly laws regarding free trade. Legal, but also not really in the spirit of the law.

They also went through a period of not letting the seller back charge for the transaction fees. Then modified that to say, well, if you include the PayPal logo in the auction, it's okay.

They're also planning to ditch all the auctions (which require staff to moderate) and switch to just being a shop. Great, so a decades worth of people making the site famous by auctions will now become a shop. An auction site, that is a fixed price shop. That is one long term advertising plan.

They're doing it all the time. I'm on there literally everyday having a look around, and have been since I was about 14. They're constantly playing with every fine detail to get the absolute maximum out of people by pushing it in ways most of the users don't realize, constantly tweaking the agreements, the bid histories, the fraud protection and so on.

There is one universal constant, they will always tell you they're doing it for your security and to make things easier for you. Like the anti-ter-roar on the radio all the time.

I have come very close to taking eBay to court, over £12 they withdrew from my bank account after I presented them with all the postage receipts, codes and told them I was in the process of making a claim in the first place.

Even still, when I'm talking with their legal department, they'll try to fob you off with utter bullshit that is just entirely invalid in a court. The judge will tell them to drop it.

They make it look legal and it'll work for pretty much all of the users. But, if you have some experience with trade laws and courts, it certainly is not. Their terms are not what the law says you're entitled to, and neither they (nor anyone else, including yourself) can overrule the law with your own terms and conditions.

e.g. "Works fine, but no returns" <---- Legally unsound.

[Edited on 19-10-2010 by peach]

bremac - 20-10-2010 at 20:49

Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  
You are safe unless the vendor gets popped and is forced to give his manifest to the authorities :)




you guys are going to worry yourselves to an early grave. I am one of the ebay vendors that you discuss, I have/had Prochemika, I had listed over time borohydride, lithium aluminum hydride, sodium hydride, acetyl bromide, diethylamine, propiophenone, benzylic acid, DCM, MEK, toluene, acetic acid, permanganate, dichromate, benzyl chloride, diphenylacetic acid, diphenylacetonitrile, acetonitrile, quinone, isopropyl nitrite, activated manganese dioxide, hydrobromic acid, sodium cyanate, cyclohexanone, mercuric chloride, tert butanol, palladium chloride, palladium on carbon and so on...

ebay was not my only business, we were a legit registered business and all stock was properly cleared through customs one item at a time and they were given to us under the understanding that they were for resale. No matter what you think, if a chemical is not specifically specified as an illegal chemical, there are only like two illegal chemicals that aren't drugs, GBL and P2P. All others are listed either threshold or not, listed means regulated if over threshold, there are many excemptions, for example, I could sell you benzaldehyde under threshold so long as it is put up for packaging for end user and my company sells more than just chemicals. If its over threshold or I only sell chemicals then its regulated and i need a permit and must keep records of the sale but I don't need to report. ONly blatantly suspicious orders are supposed to be reported.
I had 3,4methylenedioxyhydromethylcinnamaldehyde on there for a while, it isn't even watched, you can't be arrested for having an unlisted chemical, come on you guys, you are being paranoid. With respect to the comment about how it doesn't matter what you have you can be arrested for conspiracy or whatever, YES you are right, but in that case EVERYTHING is illegal, coffee filters, pop bottles you use to store stuff, distilled water. An unregulated chemical can be purchased and sold like costume jewellery and there is nothing police can do about it.

Case in point. I was raided by transport canada agents about four months ago. I foolishly tried to save a cheap bastard a few bucks cuz he would n't pay for tdg shipping but had already bought the product and refused to reverse the sale, so i expressed it to him and I got nailed.
when transport came all they cared about was whether or not the chemicals were allowed for transport in passenger carriers. They said all the chemicals were cleared by customs and you can do as you please with them but you have to ship them right. Even though i was very friendly they got nervous after seeing my files from my military backgroumd as a scout sniper and training in your ODA program so they called in an rcmp car. He had a look around and saw a bottle of gaba (in a nutritional supplements company with ingredient lists and products all over containing the product) so he decided he found a ghb lab, one with no equipment at all. He didn't care about the 25 bottles of methylamine, diethylamine, quinone, phenylacetonitrile, red phos, phenylacetic acid, sodium azide, iodine...nothing, they didn't show up as regulated under the context he was investigating so he arrested me for ghb production and i went to jail for the night. by morning they were my best friends and apologizing as they found no evidence. they were curious if i was able to make a living on the chems and if i felt like i may be supplying any drug labs. I said no and i only sell maximum of 250g containers so a lab can't do much with that. so he said ok well you'll get all your stuff back when we close the case and we aren't charging you with the twenty five mdma tablets or fifty bottles of trenbolone acetate or the fifty thousand clenbuterol tabs and other homone drugs. He said they just want to be sure not to release anything under excemption because i have a record and can't get a permit and i hadn't designated a person in charge. They took only the phenylacetic acid because it was in the reagent bottle, not one with a product name for end use.
Transport wanted to veiw my records and i refused, they said i could go to jail but i still refused, they called ebay and...............................EBAY TOLD THEM TO FUCK OFF!!!! you guys are jumping to conclusions and listening to drug folklore, take it from me, i've lived the ebay nightmare, they are not in the business of getting you in trouble. Its those bastard busy body cunts who get off looking for guys selling something that is three times removed as a useful chem and reporting it to the dea and they have a duty to follow up.
I was paid by the rcmp to do a seminar as they knew my background, i'd been popped for production before, addressing the safety factors they face going into a lab. You would not believe the ignorance, they know nothing, for them looking at my list or my friends in vancouver with the phosphorous acid etc.. is like looking at the list of a ceramics supplier, its meaningless, if its not exactly on the list they have no idea, its in german to them. I flooded them with false information and misdirection but did tell them what they needed to be safe going in. I didn't go back into business but one did pull me over one time to ask if i managed to get business back on track and just what i was up to.
The list that started this thread is not a problem, not one problem on there. If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.
here it is right from the mouths of LE, "we can only pay attention to the biggest cases, usually tips from informants and agents, we couldn't care less about people buying small bottles of research reagents, we don't have the resources. If its in our face, yes we will proceed but we don't comb ebay and forums looking for people buying or selling bits of this or that"
one time they called and said hey b, we see that you imported two kg of borohydride, it sat at customs with a ripped label and they got suspicious it may be a bomb or something so they got us over to take a sample. Just want to check its in your posession now and safe. Can we have your word this isnt going to any drug production, we know it can be used for that but you just have to act ethically for yourself, we can't make you stop, its not illegal.
Yah, its a lynch mob. They aren't that bad gents, they are bad when you are a prick crying constitution and police brutality while they put you in the car, treat as you wish to be treated and they will reciprocate.
Relax and just don't be stupid, you have rights as citizens of your country to do as you please so long as you don't breaki the law, don't let them make you feel like they can make the laws as they go.

mr.crow - 21-10-2010 at 06:25

Thank you very much for your post bremac.

I saw your store on ebay and wondered why it disappeared. Did you get your reagents back? Are you still willing to sell them?

franklyn - 21-10-2010 at 14:56

Okay, being that it will soon be Halloween

I 'm curious , so how do you frighten a chemical ?

Do you just unscrew the top off the jar and say Booo ?


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entropy51 - 21-10-2010 at 16:44

Quote:
Even though i was very friendly they got nervous after seeing my files from my military backgroumd as a scout sniper and training in your ODA program so they called in an rcmp car.

by morning they were my best friends and apologizing as they found no evidence. I was paid by the rcmp to do a seminar as they knew my background, i'd been popped for production before, addressing the safety factors they face going into a lab.

I flooded them with false information and misdirection but did tell them what they needed to be safe going in. I didn't go back into business but one did pull me over one time to ask if i managed to get business back on track and just what i was up to.
Sniffff. Is that the odor of troll?

spirocycle - 21-10-2010 at 18:30

Quote:
so he said ok well you'll get all your stuff back when we close the case and we aren't charging you with the twenty five mdma tablets or fifty bottles of trenbolone acetate or the fifty thousand clenbuterol tabs and other homone drugs.


wat?

psychokinetic - 21-10-2010 at 19:40

"they called ebay and...............................EBAY TOLD THEM TO FUCK OFF!!!"

Heh, heh.

food - 21-10-2010 at 19:51

Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  

I 'm curious , so how do you frighten a chemical ?
.


it's good to scare them periodically

helps keep them in their element

Synthettek - 22-10-2010 at 05:15

Quote: Originally posted by bremac  

you guys are going to worry yourselves to an early grave. I am one of the ebay vendors that you discuss, I have/had Prochemika.


Good to see you back again, brother. I sent you a U2U.

jon - 22-10-2010 at 08:38

i'm having an mdp2p blowout on ebay next week first come, first served.
really? i can set up shop like that?
cool thanks!!!!


[Edited on 22-10-2010 by jon]

majortom - 22-10-2010 at 19:39

Your words make sense, but I still don't trust up and coming judges and DA's as others have said.

jon - 22-10-2010 at 22:07

never underestimate the ambition of a fresh law school graduate.
and the very worst and the worst of the are those black robed priests who are convinced they are doing the work of the lord.
I have also read from statements of ebay represenatives that they will hand over information to LE upon request.
i find the sources and gladly cite them.

[Edited on 23-10-2010 by jon]

madscientist - 22-10-2010 at 23:30

Quote:
If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.


I don't know Canadian law, but in a number of US states possession of 3,4-methylenedioxybenzaldehyde is a 10 year mandatory minimum felony. It's a different story entirely down here.

Nicodem - 22-10-2010 at 23:54

Quote: Originally posted by madscientist  
Quote:
If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.


I don't know Canadian law, but in a number of US states possession of 3,4-methylenedioxybenzaldehyde is a 10 year mandatory minimum felony. It's a different story entirely down here.

3,4-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde (aka veratraldehyde) is not a drug precursor and as far as I know its commerce is not regulated in any country whatsoever. It is a moderately common chemical and also quite cheap. 3,4-Methylenedioxybenzaldehyde (aka piperonal) is a different chemical and the commerce of this one is indeed regulated in some countries, though I never heard that there are actually countries where its possession would be illegal (though it does not surprise me if this is due to some obscure US state law).

madscientist - 23-10-2010 at 03:27

Thought he might've been thinking of piperonal, since he was mentioning a lot of precursors in his post.

Either way, maybe you can get away with what he had in Canada, but in the US he would've gone to jail for a long time. I don't want anyone having any misconceptions on this, as the consequences are far too severe for mistakes.

jon - 23-10-2010 at 04:52

in some states possesion of 5 grams phenyl acetic acid = automatic intent charges/
along with other things like red p and iodine without permit.

anotheronebitesthedust - 23-10-2010 at 15:59

From the US federal sentencing guidelines.
http://www.ussc.gov/2010guid/20100121_Reader_Friendly_Propos...
Quote:
List I Chemicals Level 12
Less than 2.7 KG of Anthranilic Acid;
Less than 3.6 G of Benzaldehyde;
Less than 80 G of Benzyl Cyanide;
Less than 800 MG of Ergonovine;
Less than 1.6 G of Ergotamine;
Less than 80 G of Ethylamine;
Less than 8.8 G of Hydriodic Acid;
Less than 5 G of Iodine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Isosafrole;
Less than 800 MG of Methylamine;
Less than 3.6 KG of N-Acetylanthranilic Acid;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylephedrine;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylpseudoephedrine;
Less than 2.5 G of Nitroethane;
Less than 40 G of Norpseudoephedrine;
Less than 80 G of Phenylacetic Acid;
Less than 40 G of Piperidine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Piperonal;
Less than 7.2 G of Propionic Anhydride;
Less than 1.44 KG of Safrole;
Less than 1.8 KG of 3, 4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone;
Less than 4.5 L of Gamma-butyrolactone;
Less than 3 G of Red Phosphorus, White Phosphorus, or Hypophosphorous Acid;

List II Chemicals
Less than 66 G of Acetic Anhydride;
Less than 7.05 KG of Acetone;
Less than 120 G of Benzyl Chloride;
Less than 6.45 KG of Ethyl Ether;
Less than 7.2 KG of Methyl Ethyl Ketone;
Less than 60 G of Potassium Permanganate;
Less than 7.8 KG of Toluene.


Of course they still need to prove intent.

redfox87 - 23-10-2010 at 17:52

Theres a lot of uranium on ebay, I always thought that was a bit odd.

smaerd - 23-10-2010 at 18:09

I don't get that list at all? So you can get prosecuted for having less than 7.05kg of acetone or you can't be? If it is less than that's ridiculous.

psychokinetic - 23-10-2010 at 18:46

Admittedly that's a lot of acetone, but you'd be screwed if you just wanted to stock up so you could always have clean fingernails.

madscientist - 23-10-2010 at 21:23

Quote:
Of course they still need to prove intent.


They need to prove intent for "intent to manufacture" charges. They do not need to prove intent for lesser, though still very serious, "possession of a precursor" charges.

mr.crow - 1-11-2010 at 10:09

Oh no the Canadian eBay seller in question no longer has anything for sale

Someone in Quebec is spamming a lot of Iodine crystals. Some real iodine would be nice to get ahold of, not the home made stuff.

Rogeryermaw - 1-11-2010 at 14:17

what's the difference? i have made it from potassium iodide and sublime it twice for cleaning. it produces some very pretty blueish silvery crystals almost an inch and a half long like little sword tips. quite nice looking and rather pure.

madscientist - 1-11-2010 at 14:43

Just because it's from an outside source doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be of high purity. Even big companies are capable of shipping out garbage.

mr.crow - 2-11-2010 at 06:15

More like it takes me all day to make 20g of iodine and makes a huge mess. I don't even need it for anything, just part of the collection.

spirocycle - 2-11-2010 at 07:47

Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust  
From the US federal sentencing guidelines.
http://www.ussc.gov/2010guid/20100121_Reader_Friendly_Propos...
Quote:
List I Chemicals Level 12
Less than 2.7 KG of Anthranilic Acid;
Less than 3.6 G of Benzaldehyde;
Less than 80 G of Benzyl Cyanide;
Less than 800 MG of Ergonovine;
Less than 1.6 G of Ergotamine;
Less than 80 G of Ethylamine;
Less than 8.8 G of Hydriodic Acid;
Less than 5 G of Iodine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Isosafrole;
Less than 800 MG of Methylamine;
Less than 3.6 KG of N-Acetylanthranilic Acid;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylephedrine;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylpseudoephedrine;
Less than 2.5 G of Nitroethane;
Less than 40 G of Norpseudoephedrine;
Less than 80 G of Phenylacetic Acid;
Less than 40 G of Piperidine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Piperonal;
Less than 7.2 G of Propionic Anhydride;
Less than 1.44 KG of Safrole;
Less than 1.8 KG of 3, 4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone;
Less than 4.5 L of Gamma-butyrolactone;
Less than 3 G of Red Phosphorus, White Phosphorus, or Hypophosphorous Acid;

List II Chemicals
Less than 66 G of Acetic Anhydride;
Less than 7.05 KG of Acetone;
Less than 120 G of Benzyl Chloride;
Less than 6.45 KG of Ethyl Ether;
Less than 7.2 KG of Methyl Ethyl Ketone;
Less than 60 G of Potassium Permanganate;
Less than 7.8 KG of Toluene.


Of course they still need to prove intent.


so these are the max amounts you can possess?
or am I misunderstanding

madscientist - 2-11-2010 at 08:07

The laws on precursors and intent are confusing and complicated, and vary from state to state - I don't purport to understand all the intricacies. However I know for a fact that a number of those, possessed below the threshold given, can get you locked up - anthranillic acid, ergot alkaloids, isosafrole, N-acetylanthranilic acid, piperonal, propionic anhydride, safrole, 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (kiss your ass goodbye if you get caught with 1.7kg of this), and the phosphorus.

They may be able to get you on more of those than I listed. Again, it's hard to know.

anotheronebitesthedust - 2-11-2010 at 10:11

Quote:
so these are the max amounts you can possess?
Do you understand what less than means? It means smaller than.

My understanding is that possession of even 1 gram of Toluene with intent to manufacture (or sale with reasonable cause to believe it will be used in the manufacture of) a controlled substance, is a level 12 offence which is 10-16 months for a first time offender. Replace the 1 gram of Toluene with 3 kilograms of Ephedrine and you get a level 38 offence which is 235-293 months for a first time offender.

For anyone interested, the 2010 guidelines were published yesterday:
http://www.ussc.gov/2010guid/PDF_Guidelines_Manual_Full.pdf

mr.crow - 2-11-2010 at 11:57

Any reason why you stopped selling on ebay?

anotheronebitesthedust - 2-11-2010 at 16:39

Going to school.

spirocycle - 2-11-2010 at 19:05

Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust  
Quote:
so these are the max amounts you can possess?
Do you understand what less than means? It means smaller than.

My understanding is that possession of even 1 gram of Toluene with intent to manufacture (or sale with reasonable cause to believe it will be used in the manufacture of) a controlled substance, is a level 12 offence which is 10-16 months for a first time offender. Replace the 1 gram of Toluene with 3 kilograms of Ephedrine and you get a level 38 offence which is 235-293 months for a first time offender.

For anyone interested, the 2010 guidelines were published yesterday:
http://www.ussc.gov/2010guid/PDF_Guidelines_Manual_Full.pdf


the sarcasm wasnt really necessary to get your point across.
the numbers seemed a bit high, so I was just confirming

bquirky - 3-11-2010 at 12:08

just become a company.. then anything you do is ok :)

Mush - 27-9-2014 at 08:21

24th June 2014
"At ReAgent, whenever we receive a request that may be flagged as suspicious, we inform the police who can carry out checks on the intentions of use for the chemical."

http://www.reagent.co.uk/blog/toxic-chemicals-the-dangers-of...

Thanx very much!:D

zenosx - 2-10-2014 at 19:26

Sorry to comment at all but I am sorry that you have to work so hard at obtaining such a rather mundane chemical .....

zenosx - 6-10-2014 at 18:53

Wow, really old thread, but it was bumped so I'll say, I never knew para-formaldehyde was so hard to come by... I have a few bottles that I haven't had any use for in quite a while

Templar - 10-10-2014 at 08:26

Quote: Originally posted by Mush  
24th June 2014
"At ReAgent, whenever we receive a request that may be flagged as suspicious, we inform the police who can carry out checks on the intentions of use for the chemical."

http://www.reagent.co.uk/blog/toxic-chemicals-the-dangers-of...

Thanx very much!:D


"At ReAgent, whenever we receive a request that may be flagged as suspicious, we inform the secret police who can carry warrantless searches on the premises designated for delivery of said chemicals. Here at ReAgent, we enjoy being part of the police state, and will look for any way to sell out our customers to the iron fist of totalitarian rule."

This is exactly the kind of company that can go f*ck itself. I understand obligations of companies when it comes to selling chemicals. What I do not respect are boot lickers who go out of their way to investigate their own customers.

News flash: you dont need lab reagents to make a good bomb. You don't like terrorism? then get your military out of the middle east

As for anyone still buying this war on terror bullsh*t...

How did it go in 1984 again? the populace was kept in a constant level of alert by producing fake threats to panic them into compliance. See any parallels?

Chemosynthesis - 10-10-2014 at 09:28

Templar, can you please keep the politics out of the science sections? I don't know anyone here who enjoys chemical bureaucracy or regulation, but all you managed to do was add an opinion to this thread that was not pertinent to chemistry or obtaining reagents.

You don't like the company? Don't buy from them, and feel free to make another one others can choose to shop at. Then you can deal with the same things they do.

In addition to paperwork, now some of burden of proof may be shifting to courier services:

http://m.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324595904578121461...

http://www.justice.gov/dea/divisions/sf/2014/sf071814.shtml