Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Pure Sodium Metal

Pure Sodium Metal

MttLsp - 9-8-2010 at 17:43

I'm interested in isolating pure Sodium metal from Sodium compounds and this is what I have so far:

1) Li + NaCl --> LiCl + Na
2) 2Mg + 2NaOH --> 2MgO + H2 + 2Na
3) Electrolysis of molten NaCl

Are there any other methods besides these?

Lambda-Eyde - 9-8-2010 at 18:20

Electrolysis of molten NaOH:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9797

Sciocrat - 10-8-2010 at 06:28

Reaction of NaOH with aluminium or magnesium (better).

I have also read that a reaction of molten Pb and NaCl could give Na, but unfortunately except for it being mentioned, I haven't found any other useful information about this method.

[Edited on 10-8-2010 by Sciocrat]

MttLsp - 11-8-2010 at 13:31

Thanks both of you were very helpful

Castner Sodium Process

Vanilla47 - 27-9-2010 at 20:59

Hi !
Castner Sodium Process must be suitable !
A Free PDF for Download !
http://vanilla47.com/PDFs/ClandestineChemistry/Amphetamine/T...

Rogeryermaw - 27-9-2010 at 21:36

there are about a hundred other threads on sodium production here.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14491

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9797

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14457#...

try these out first

1281371269 - 28-9-2010 at 07:23

Why does 1.) work?

metalresearcher - 28-9-2010 at 09:48

Quote: Originally posted by Vanilla47

Hi !
A Free PDF for Download !
http://vanilla47.com/PDFs/ClandestineChemistry/Amphetamine/T...

Really nice section of a book of 1953 ! I read about women were ladling off molten sodium from NaOH bath and a backyard cast Ni anode !

[Edited on 2010-9-28 by metalresearcher]

OctanitroC - 17-3-2014 at 10:35

Quote: Originally posted by Mossydie

Why does 1.) work?

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I've been looking for resources about Castner cell construction and ran across several Na production threads, including this one. 1.) works because it's carried out at a temperature where Na is gaseous but Li isn't, so the equilibrium is driven towards the products by continuous evaporation of Na out of the reaction mixture. Needless to say, it's not the best suited for home use, as the temperatures necessary are quite high and suitable apparatus for condensing gaseous Na are necessary.

blogfast25 - 17-3-2014 at 11:42

Quote: Originally posted by MttLsp

2) 2Mg + 2NaOH --> 2MgO + H2 + 2Na

Creates a mess of mixed Na and MgO from which Na is very difficult to extricate. Just forget about that one altogether.

@Octa:

With a BP of 883 C for Na (1330 C for Li) complete separation of Na and Li would be difficult, unless strong vacuum is applied. It's not really something hobbyists can achieve easily, this combination of high temp + high vac.

[Edited on 17-3-2014 by blogfast25]

HgDinis25 - 17-3-2014 at 11:47

You should also look into electrolysis of a sodium salt in propylene carbonate. There are several threads here that talk about this. It would be interesting if someone tried it because, AFAIK, no one has tried it.

Zyklon-A - 17-3-2014 at 11:51

A few people have tried it. And I will be as soon as my propylene carbonate comes.

blogfast25 - 17-3-2014 at 11:54

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

A few people have tried it.

Like who? You mean here or literature reports?

HgDinis25 - 17-3-2014 at 11:55

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

A few people have tried it. And I will be as soon as my propylene carbonate comes.

Looking forward to it then xD
I've been wanting to make sompe popylene carbonate but was waiting for a positive confirmation from someone, about the sodium route. I could always try it myself, but the past months have been really busy, and I haven't had much time for chemistry.

HgDinis25 - 17-3-2014 at 11:56

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

A few people have tried it.

Like who? You mean here or literature reports?

I believe he's talking about a member who posted a really good way to make propylene carbonate with some high yelds. On that topic someone refered having a little bit of sucess. Going to dig to se if I can find such topic.

Oscilllator - 17-3-2014 at 17:08

@ HgDinis25 are you talking about This thread?

Zyklon-A - 17-3-2014 at 17:15

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

A few people have tried it.

Like who? You mean here or literature reports?

I mean literature reports, I don't know of anyone here who has tried it.

Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25

No, I bought my propylene carbonate, I wasn't talking about that.

[EDIT]

Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25

Looking forward to it then xD

Me too! You can read about here. Although no action has been made as far as trials or testing are concerned. Because my PC hasn't come yet.

[Edited on 18-3-2014 by Zyklonb]

HgDinis25 - 17-3-2014 at 17:18

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator

@ HgDinis25 are you talking about This thread?

Yap, looks like you were the one I was talking about. I remembered it because of the good chemistry that was done on that topic, but I had seen it a few months ago, so I wasn't sure.

nezza - 18-3-2014 at 14:26

If you can get hold of it sodium can be prepared by carefully heating small quantities of sodium azide in an inert atmosphere. The big proviso being that the azide must be pure and it must be heated carefully.

HgDinis25 - 18-3-2014 at 14:29

Quote: Originally posted by nezza

If you can get hold of it sodium can be prepared by carefully heating small quantities of sodium azide in an inert atmosphere. The big proviso being that the azide must be pure and it must be heated carefully.

Do you have any references to back you up or am I just missing something? That sounds like a good way to lose a few fingers...

elementcollector1 - 18-3-2014 at 14:40

The decomposition of sodium azide is indeed explosive - it's how air bags work (or used to, at any rate).

Zyklon-A - 18-3-2014 at 15:16

I remember reading on this forum, someone isolated cesium by decomposing the corresponding azide. I think her name was Valentine. (I hope it was a 'her'.) I will look for it....
[edit]
Here it is:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22890&...

[Edited on 18-3-2014 by Zyklonb]

HgDinis25 - 18-3-2014 at 15:23

Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb

I remember reading on this forum, someone isolated cesium by decomposing the corresponding azide. I think her name was Valentine. (I hope it was a 'her'.) I will look for it....
[edit]
Here it is:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22890&...

[Edited on 18-3-2014 by Zyklonb]

My best bet is that, when descending in the alkaline series, the azides get more stable to explosion. Wiki states that potassium azide, already, can be used to isolate potassium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_azide

Elementcollector was actively participating on the topic you've posted so he should be able to share some light on us.

elementcollector1 - 18-3-2014 at 15:56

The decomposition of caesium azide was carried out under inert atmosphere, with no flame-related sources of heat. Even then, the yield wasn't very good, and followup experimentation was nonexistent (I would have been interested to see where 15-20g would have gotten Valentine).
Decomposition of azides is hazardous, because if the strictest conditions are not followed, azides tend to explode. Given that you have to first distill hydrazoic acid, react this with a caesium salt and isolate this compound, then melt it, I would not suggest this route.
Caesium is already explosive enough - don't add to the danger!

Zyklon-A - 18-3-2014 at 16:25

I have no intention to get cesium yet.
No to mention the fact that this is on the subject of producing sodium.... As if we didn't have enough threads on this topic.

nezza - 19-3-2014 at 14:30

HgDinis25 I have attached a pic from an old textbook (Theoretical and Inorganic Chemistry) which states that pure nitrogen (and by inference pure sodium) can be prepared by heating sodium azide.

Attachment: Inorganic and Theoretical Chemistry.pdf (393kB)
This file has been downloaded 375 times

HgDinis25 - 19-3-2014 at 14:38

That reference is vague.
If you really want to try this i suggest you read a lot about sodium azide.

nezza - 22-3-2014 at 04:57

I have attached a video of the preparation and pictures of the sodium thus prepared. Do not try this at home.

Attachment: Thermal decomposition of sodium azide.mp4 (1MB)
This file has been downloaded 510 times

Attachment: Sodium from prep.mp4 (580kB)
This file has been downloaded 496 times