Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Bizarre way to make sodium?

d010060002 - 6-7-2010 at 09:11

I'm not sure if this is real, but it looked interesting, as I'd never seen a way to make sodium that doesn't involve electrolysis. I just wanted some more experienced chemists than me checking this out. It seems to me that the standard reduction potentials would keep sodium from being formed, but maybe the high heat does something?

here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/user/nighthawkinlight?blend=1&ob=...

here's an article by the same guy
http://www.grassrootsdiy.com/sodium.htm

The WiZard is In - 6-7-2010 at 11:18

Quote: Originally posted by d010060002  
I'm not sure if this is real, but it looked interesting, as I'd never seen a way to make sodium that doesn't involve electrolysis. I just wanted some more experienced chemists than me checking this out. It seems to me that the standard reduction potentials would keep sodium from being formed, but maybe the high heat does something?

here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/user/nighthawkinlight?blend=1&ob=...

here's an article by the same guy
http://www.grassrootsdiy.com/sodium.htm



------
Bizarre?!

I would give the chemistry an A and the
chemical engineering an F.

When this was done - them that done it - done did it - in
an iron tube that was previously deoxidized by heating it
and passing hydrogen through the inside.

Do not be knowing how they kept air out, passing H2 through
comes to mind.

PS - Them that knew what they were doing — used carbonate not hydroxide.


djh
----
5-minutes between the
covers of a book can often
save 30-days on la Net.

d010060002 - 6-7-2010 at 13:08

thanks for the reply. I had just never seen the procedure before.

The WiZard is In - 6-7-2010 at 14:08

Quote: Originally posted by d010060002  
thanks for the reply. I had just never seen the procedure before.



If you look upon

Volume II
Supplement II

of Mellor's 16-volume opus you will find a wholebunch of old
methods.

Remember before the invention of the dynamo the only source
of electricity were primary cells .... even Bill Gates with all his
money couldn't afford to do manufacture using electrochemistry
via primary cells.

Prior to production of sodium using electricity aluminium which
was made using sodium was so expensive that that the/a
British manufacture stopped selling it as no one could afford
to pay what it cost to produce.

Reminds me of the old time telephony industry. The first subscriber
phone set contained batteries. Remember the old milk bottle
size Blue Bell Cells? Periodically changing them was a
hugh expensive both in material and labour. So they powered
them from the Central Office using large primary batteries ...
toooo expensive. They then used secondary batteries and
generators. Because the early generators were too noisy,
they had two sets one powered the telephone plant while the
other recharged. They switched them at night.

This was still expensive as constantly discharging and recharging
lead acid cell is mechanical hell on the cells, and they had
to regularly replace the plates.

The invention of inter-poles which stopped arcing solved the noise
problem, well series inductance and parallel capacitors helped.

And speaking of Mellor - of his 16-volume opus and 6-volume
supplement [48" on my shelves] one complete volume is now
available at Google.com/books.

d010060002 - 6-7-2010 at 14:31

oh really? is it free? I wasn't able to find it when i searched mellor's opus

The WiZard is In - 6-7-2010 at 15:21

Quote: Originally posted by d010060002  
oh really? is it free? I wasn't able to find it when i searched mellor's opus



As of a moment ago ... only Volume I, Hydrogen and Oxygen
has been posted. When the other 15 will be .........?

metalresearcher - 9-9-2010 at 09:10

Did anyone try this ?
I don't think this works that Mg frees Na from NaOH otherwise the Na would be produced commercially this way.
OTOH according to this site (fill in 2 mole NaOH and 1 mole Mg @ 1000oC) it yields 0.6b mole Na metal, so he can be right.
But another process did exist in the 19th century:

Na2CO3 + 3C --> 2Na + 2CO

Just heating soda with coke at 1100oC in a retort and capturing the Na vapor in oil. But electrolysis turned out to be more commercially viable.

[Edited on 2010-9-9 by metalresearcher]

Polverone - 9-9-2010 at 11:59

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  
Quote: Originally posted by d010060002  
oh really? is it free? I wasn't able to find it when i searched mellor's opus



As of a moment ago ... only Volume I, Hydrogen and Oxygen
has been posted. When the other 15 will be .........?


Sauron scanned several Mellor volumes, including the alkali metals, and uploaded them. It has long been a back-burnered project of mine to clean up the page images and add OCR. In the meantime, you can find those he did at http://oldchem.4shared.com along with the volumes of A Text-Book of Inorganic Chemistry that he and other members gathered from scattered public scan collections.