Sciencemadness Discussion Board - mercury salt

mercury salt

taekin2004 - 11-1-2004 at 10:34

This being my first visit to these forums and of course my first post, I am not sure if this is the proper place for this. Correct me if I am wrong. ;-)

I am a programmer, not a chemist... but I like adventure and have found a project worth looking into. It involves hg-salt. I of course know the hg is mercury but have not found any useful information on this.

Is it harmful?

How do I get a chemical such as this?

For my project I can use one of the following..

HgCl2
Hg(NO3)2
Hg(acetate)2
HgCl

Any information on hg-salt would be great. Thanks in advance.

Geomancer - 11-1-2004 at 21:05

You are in the right place, however I'm not sure you provide enough information to for people to be helpful. You say you need any Hg salt? What for? Your list contains both mercuric and mercurous salts--most chemical processes will care.
Just about any soluable mercury salt (HgS is insoluable as all hell, so rather safe) can be expected to have signifigant toxicity, certainly chronic and probably acute as well. Personally, I can live with acute toxicity --you know where you stand with it. Chronic toxicity is another matter--I stay as far away from Hg as I can get.
Organic mercury compounds are often worse. Look up, for instance, the researcher who died from getting a small amount dimethyl mercury on her hand. Stuff went through the glove instantly, but it took her months to die.
That said, you're likely to find someone here who has experimented with any of the common mercury compounds. Whatever you do, read the MSDS's, and stay safe.

[Edited on 12-1-2004 by Geomancer]

FGP - 12-1-2004 at 07:14

I really would become a chemist first!
FGP

guaguanco - 12-1-2004 at 10:12

Quote:

Originally posted by taekin2004

I am a programmer, not a chemist... but I like adventure and have found a project worth looking into. It involves hg-salt. I of course know the hg is mercury but have not found any useful information on this.

Is it harmful?

How do I get a chemical such as this?

For my project I can use one of the following..

HgCl2
Hg(NO3)2
Hg(acetate)2
HgCl

Any information on hg-salt would be great. Thanks in advance.

This is a bad idea, since materials like mercuric chloride are *extremely toxic* and require special equipment and handling techniques to handle safely. You can't just slosh them around in fruit jars and coffee cans!! What you're saying is similar to:

"Hi! I don't know anything about guns, but I have a cool project that requires a loaded 357 magnum. Anyone know where I can get one?"

taekin2004 - 13-1-2004 at 18:19

Thanks for the replys.

After trying many forums, I am very proud that no one was rude here... a good sign. Thanks much for the advice and warnings.

I think I can handle the toxic part and if not it is a chance I am willing to take. Back in the days of Jr college I took several classes\lab in organic chemistry and such.. but those are but faint memories. I wish I had paid more attention. lol

Fruit jars and coffee cans? hehe No way! I have invested thus far in several useful items...

hotplate\stirrer combo
magnetic stir bar
RBF several sizes
clamps
stands
water aspirator

and the list goes on.

I really just need some info on the chemicals below.

HgCl2
Hg(NO3)2
Hg(acetate)2
HgCl

How to get any of them would be nice since this is the last remaining thing I need for my adventure.

Many thanks to those who replied and also to those who will reply soon I hope.

chemoleo - 13-1-2004 at 20:42

Hmmm you are making me curious... what *precisely* are you trying to do with those Hg salts? It's a lot easier to help ya if the purpose of your 'little adventure' is known.
It's odd, 2 questions, but no reason why you'd like to know that. What kind of info are you looking for? physicochemical properties? You can get htat in any local library.
So what are you trying to find out about those salts? For what purpose? Stop being elusive! No excuses

guaguanco - 14-1-2004 at 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by taekin2004
Thanks for the replys.

Ok. How are you planning to clean up the mercury after your 'adventure'?
1) Dump it down the drain?
2) Dump it on the ground?
3) Properly dispose of it through a Hazardous Materials service?
If you answer 3), good for you!

If you answer 1) or 2), apply the following:

It's fine to say 'I'm not scared of mercury!'. How about the person downstream from you? Or the next person that has kids running around where you used to live?
Everyone on this board suffers to some extent from the lack of readily available chemicals. Everyone who thoughtlessly dumps toxic materials wherever it's convenient contributes to that ever-decreasing availability.
Chemistry involving mercury is not just a fun little adventure!

Again, if you plan to be clean and responsible I commend you. I just get frustrated seeing people adopt a lah-dee-dah attitude towards toxic, long-lasting materials.

taekin2004 - 14-1-2004 at 16:12

Come now gentlemen... does anyone have any information on where I can find one of the forms of hg salt?

@chemoleo
To be honest, the forum probably forbids me talking about such. But help given is'nt based on "saint or sinner", correct?

@guaguanco
Disposal...

At the local Jr college. Goto the lab and tell them something like I broke a thermometer and couldnt figure out what to do with the mess. The excuse would be something a little more grand I presume but they would of course dispose of it.

Help please? Following a 9 part sythesis... I have completed 7 parts and this hg-salt thing is holding me up on number 8. lol

taekin2004 - 14-1-2004 at 16:35

All ya had to say was "mercuric chloride"

Thanks guys.

Tacho - 16-1-2004 at 05:26

Consider Hg2Cl2 (mercurous chloride, aka Calomel). This is very insoluble, therefore almost non-toxic. It was a widely used medication many years ago. Yes, people ate it!

It can easily be turned into the very toxic mercuric chloride by... I can't remember... I guess heating with NaOH, or brine, or HCl... It's easy to see: white sediment=calomel, transparent solution=mercuric.

You can make small amounts as needed.

Anyway, a quick research will tell you.

You will be dealing with an almost non-toxic material. Much safer to store and use.

sylla - 16-1-2004 at 07:28

just a stupid question,

If I asked you how to make mustard gaz, VX or sarin, would you reply ?

AngelEyes - 16-1-2004 at 07:50

Someone would reply. But probably Vulture and I doubt his tone would be friendly.
You can download War Gasses from Polverones site (I think) and get a lot of background stuff from there, though.

guaguanco - 16-1-2004 at 09:17

Quote:

Originally posted by sylla
just a stupid question,

If I asked you how to make mustard gaz, VX or sarin, would you reply ?

Not if they stated 'I'm not a chemist, but I'm looking for a fun little adventure. How do you make Sarin? I've completed 7 of 9 steps and just need a bit of help to finish up.'

Most queries like 'how do I make nerve gas' are purely fantasies and curiosity.
And I really hope taekin2004 investigates his local hazardous materials disposal site. I have zero tolerance for people who dump mercury illegally.
[Edited on 16-1-2004 by guaguanco]

[Edited on 16-1-2004 by guaguanco]

sylla - 16-1-2004 at 11:45

It isn't easy here to tell madness from crime.

There are many people trying to build weapons and we would be hardly responsible if we helped them.

Of course we don't know why people asks question like "how do I make HgCl ?" or "What is the most lethal explosive you know ?" but moderators should be more aware of the risks of such kind of informations.

I don't want to destroy anything or to kill people and so I don't want to help people doing it.

I think moderators here should be more sceptical against this kind of post, there are things not to play with. I understand people learning the theory about nerve gaz or other because it's science (and I like science very much) but I think there is a huge step between stuying it and making it. I think you all agree.

So, why would someone make such dangerous products as HgCl or even playing with the mercury metal if they don't have anything to do with it. "Funny, today I've done Sarin. It was fun. Now I think I should try it on some neightbours !".

I know my args are weak cuz you can say the same about explosives... I know I like synth explosives but I don't know why...

Sorry if you have spend time on my post, I hope I didn't look too dumb too

I just have a bad feeling with this topic

taekin2004 - 16-1-2004 at 18:31

For those who keep insisting I check about how to dispose of the chemical... read above.

It would of course be dealt with in a decent fashion.

mustard gas
VX
sarin

You gotta be kidding! Those are for kids that like to play with things such as the 'anarchist cookbook'. Idle hands are the devils workshop and these hands are not idle good chap. Those guys making weapons and using chemicals for harm should be spanked, agree?

Now others get a bad rap when its not deserved. For example...
Ever heard of serotonin? What would be the positive effect of using chemicals to release larger amounts of it? Those guys who 'dream' of making such a thing would be slandered along with the 'mad-chemist bomb dude'. lol

Either way.. the steps taken turned out great and I dont have any weapons of mass destruction.

Nothing but good things came from my adventure and after many long hours of work I finally got to be my own lab rat today. Absolutely wonderful, much better than I ever dreamed, couldnt be more happy.

BTW... seriously, if I accomplished such a thing on my own... I cant imagine what you guys are capable of!

@sylla
Chill dude, no one here asked for any info on any bomb. lol There are many uses for these chemicals that do not involve harmful weapons. You know what assumption makes people right?

Madness.. maybe, I think we are all mad in our own little way. The moderator should read my posts and see if I said anything out-of-line. If I broke the rules then of course correct me or ban me. In this case I think I didnt and I was careful not to. Solution, either come to my "question" and help or keep such comments to your own topic. Thanks.

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by taekin2004]

taekin2004 - 16-1-2004 at 22:47

BTW...

Geomancer, much thanks for your help, since your the one that got me on the right track.

chemoleo, elusive?? I would actually love to discuss what I did, but not on a public forum.

Tacho, I really appreciate it and I will try the non-toxic version next time. Maybe much safer which means less stress.

blip - 17-1-2004 at 21:32

I would like to point out that his/her request looks somewhat suspicious.

Request:

Quote:

HgCl2
Hg(NO3)2
Hg(acetate)2
HgCl

and these were referred to as "hg-salt".

On <a href="http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/brightstar.mdma.html" target="_blank">this page</a>, these are listed in exactly the same way in a bulleted listing:

Quote:

Hg-salt (1 gram of: HgCl2, Hg(NO3)2, Hg(acetate)2, HgCl, It can be anything, and 1g should last you a long time.)

Now, I'm not saying this is what the intention was at all (MDMA production). For all I know, (s)he could be using the salts for legitimate purposes. I just thought I'd bring this to your intention as I was browsing Rhodium's page and I recognized it. I sincerely hope that this is not what was meant by his "fun adventure".

unionised - 18-1-2004 at 06:20

If that is the sort of quantity of mercury we are talking about then the hazardous waste problem is a red herring. I've got more mercury than that in my teeth.

Saerynide - 18-1-2004 at 06:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Hermes_Trismegistus

There goes my innocence!

I was so happy and blissfully unaware and there you went and spoiled it for me.

You have forever scarred my faith in the inherent goodness of all mankind.

Once I was a sweet flower, unaware in the garden. And now I am ripped away from my lovely shroud of ignorance. And you have torn away my vision of eden only to replace it with the harsh and horrible reality of the wilderness.

ROFL
Sounds like some Catcher In The Rye discussion

blip - 18-1-2004 at 06:37

Geez, I didn't know I'd get that kind of response! No, I'm not any kind of detective or policeman but I'm sure you wouldn't care to believe me now. I opened up a page about nitration with DCM, HNO3, and H2SO4 and when I finished reading all of the posts I went back to it. It was a fairly short text, so I went back into the chemistry archives (there was a link at the top enclosed in brackets). Out of sheer boredom I read random articles and saw that that one had some interesting chemistry to it (at least for me, I'm not a super-chemist like everyone else) and the spelling and order of the "hg-salt" was identical, a bit of an eye-opening experience. Look, I don't even have sulfuric acid, so how am I going to do anything like that?! Most of the people in my family take/took some drug(s) that really fucked them up and usually killed them or got them killed. :mad:

Yeah, like I'm really going to go against a powerful feeling of disgust against them and just make some. I swear to you (or god if you like) that if my house was searched, they wouldn't find anything suspicious except a bit of homemade bleach and nail polish remover.

I posted to let everyone know, not caring or knowing whether any action would be taken (it's not likely), because I figured that at least someone didn't know. I informed them (the readers), so that they could make their own decisions. Information here is pretty much free, so I figured I could post. Guess not! :mad:

If people are going to get this kind of response from these posts I feel were innocent, then no I'm not going to delete them because I think they need to know how they're going to be treated if this occurs. If you had a drug synthesis page as a source for some reaction, everyone would be correct in considering you as a druggie or manufacturer? I truly hope I won't have to leave this board forever, because I'm not into concealing my identity with proxies and a new user name at all.

[Edited on 1-18-2004 by blip]

Geomancer - 18-1-2004 at 07:59

Blip, IMO the content of your post was completely appropriate. Though it seems obvious in retrospect, I hadn't made the appropriate connections. My curiousity was only hieghtened by taeken2004's unusual reticence in providing any additional information.
Your tone, on the other hand, was somewhat unwisely chosen. You've been here long enough to know that a large portion of posts, especially by fly-by-night, one post wonders, pertain to some sort of (more or less) illegal activity. We all bring some combination of scruples with us, but being a good citizen in a community requires some degree of tolerence of people who are differently scrupulous. If you think your information will encourage irresponsible behavior, don't post.
Choose your battles.

Saerynide - 18-1-2004 at 08:49

Blip, I dont think Hermes really meant it so condescendingly. I think he was just being a little sarcastic. Dont spaz so badly at him

blip - 18-1-2004 at 09:11

Argh, deeply sorry about that. I never really was very able to take jokes like a joke; to me everything is serious. I think I should make a note to post when I'm more awake, too. IMO Hermes's choice of words tend to be powerful enough for me to take everything seriously.
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Polverone - 18-1-2004 at 11:45

I think that people should be free to discuss absolutely any sort of chemistry. I also think that there are sites better suited to discussing the synthesis of psychoactive materials and that Sciencemadness need not follow in their footsteps.

Please, no witch-hunting of posters that you suspect of doing dangerous/illegal/stupid things. Warn them as part of a helpful post, or devote a private message entirely to warning them, but don't try to divine the intentions of people who make legitimate (if oddly-phrased) inquiries and then raise the alarm when you suspect that they are doing Something Eeevill.

At the same time, though, posters asking questions shouldn't invite suspicion and criticism from excess secrecy or shiftiness. If the original poster had said, for example, that he needed a mercury salt to prepare aluminum amalgam, I hope that others' curiousity would be satisfied and they wouldn't hound him with followup "why do you need aluminum amalgam?" questions.

At the other extreme of openness, if the original poster said (I don't know if this was truly his end goal) "I want to make MDMA and need help getting a mercury salt for amalgamation" then he would be directed to the Hive and the thread would be closed.

I'm not going to practice censorship or encourage self-censorship just to make sure that Eevill Drug Cooks and their nefarious compounds are never mentioned on this site. At the same time, I want to encourage chemists, chemical hobbyists, and would-be chemists to frequent this site. I don't want to encourage "cooks" who are just interested in one or two specific compounds and don't care about anything but getting their product. I feel the same way about pyros who care about chemistry just enough to make impressive fires and explosions.

blip - 18-1-2004 at 15:51

Yeesh. I am not against the procurement of chemicals that could be used for drug manufacture, or even the actual manufacture, but instead the crimes that can be caused merely by their existence. As we all know, almost all chemicals can be used for anything, good or bad. This is the chemist's choice, no one else's. Banning the sale and distribution would be utterly retarded because it would be like chewing ourselves from the inside out (technology bans I guess). Banning styrofoam because kewls could make "napalm" is just stupid. Drug manufacture is fine, it can promote learning, and using drugs responsibly won't cause any damage. It's when someone gets really greedy and sells the stuff at astronomical prices. If it's something really powerful, addicts are going to do practically anything to get it. This leads to muggings, murders (depends), and even prostitution. It's not good if the users go insane, either (not implying that any of y'all do). Healthwise, they can scramble you up as well. Can the discussion end here?

Edit: I now recall having a discussion much like this in English class. When I finished, everyone stared at me wide-eyed and -mouthed and disagreed. Is that what's happening here?

[Edited on 1-18-2004 by blip]

unionised - 18-1-2004 at 16:17

A few thoughts;
It's a long time since anyone said anything about mercury.
Anyone with little enough grasp of chemistry not know what a mecury salt is will be hard put to try to make drugs.
Anyone who makes small ammounts of drugs will not kill very much of the environment (they may kill themselves and their friends).
Anyone who makes large quantities of drugs will probably be killed by the local drugs barron (I understand they don't like competition and they are not bound by anti-trust laws).
Anyone who works making drugs for the local mafia won't need the help of this site.

I do it !

Organikum - 18-1-2004 at 19:45

http://www.Rhodium.ws/chemistry

look in the "inorganic" section therel.
If you have any questions after reading whats written there come back and ask. Nobody here has an interest to let you die.

Actually this poster didnt sound like an idiot to me in any way and he is friendly and well mannered and most important, he asked his question in an appropriate way what shows he has taken the time to look what kind of board this here is.

taekin2004 - 19-1-2004 at 08:34

Thanks much for the link. That was very useful as was the other numerious links found there!