Sciencemadness Discussion Board

TiCL3 made at home?

angelhair - 26-10-2009 at 16:20

Is is possible to make Titanium lll chloride at home from OTC compounds?

kilowatt - 26-10-2009 at 16:46

Of course, you can make almost any chemical at home with OTC materials if you have the right apparatus and the time, knowledge, and patience. The only exceptions are those that contain elements that are not available OTC, like highly radioactive ones. But is it practical? How badly do you need it?

TiCl3 would be a tricky one, since it is made from TiCl4, which is itself made by the reaction of TiO2 (readily available) with carbon and dry chlorine at something like 800°C or a dull red heat. TiCl4 is a volatile (liquid at STP) and corrosive chlorinating agent which reacts with water and most acids to revert to TiO2 and HCl. To make TiCl3, TiCl4 is reduced with a metal such as aluminum. The mixed chlorides are then separated with THF, which forms an air reactive complex with TiCl3, which should be handled in an inert atmosphere. The complex is then thermally decomposed to afford pure TiCl3, which also is air reactive. Further heating decomposes TiCl3 to TiCl2 which is a powerful reducing agent, and chlorine.

angelhair - 26-10-2009 at 16:58

yes I do have tha apparatus and the time. I thought there might be an easier way than the TiCl4 route. Thanks, I might try it anyway.

kilowatt - 26-10-2009 at 17:02

Well I imagine you would work "backwards" by chlorinating TiCl2, but that's not exactly OTC.

halogenstruck - 28-10-2009 at 16:04

i made it easily before but the concentration can not reach high,only enough to see the pink-red color.
i mixed TiO2 with Al powder[very fine like flour][atomized,the kind which is used in painting] and aluminothermy by a red nichrom filament warmed by electricity===>u have Ti sponge although alloyed with a little Al and mixed with Al2O3,TiO2,TixOy then sponge is reacted with KOH conc.===>then sponge is treated with Conc. HCl and boiled with till turns to pink-red.

another method i can propose[i have not done this one by myself] is to heat TiO2/NaHSO4 and resulted dry containing TiO(SO4)
to be mixed with KCl and distilled dry ==>TiCl4,...
i read before in a book but cannot remember well.
something like this:
TiO2+H2SO4==dry heating==>TiOSO4==adding KCl==>K2TiCl6 precipitation==>precipitate to be distilled dry==>TiCl4


[Edited on 29-10-2009 by halogenstruck]

blogfast25 - 1-11-2009 at 07:00

TiCl3 can be prepared in aqueous solution by simply dissolving Ti metal in conc. HCl. In reflux at BP this reaction (Ti + 3 HCl ---> TiCl3 + 3/2 H2) is quite vigorous and fairly concentrated solutions can be obtained according my own experience. These deep blue/violet solutions are stable at low pH and in the absence of air (or other oxidisers). I've done this quite a few times to assay home-made titanium.

Adding an excess NH4F to a TiCl3 solution should cause the complex (NH4)3TiF6 to form, which may be a route (via thermal decomposition) to TiF3.

blogfast25 - 1-11-2009 at 08:16

Quote: Originally posted by halogenstruck  

i mixed TiO2 with Al powder[very fine like flour][atomized,the kind which is used in painting] and aluminothermy by a red nichrom filament warmed by electricity===>u have Ti sponge although alloyed with a little Al and mixed with Al2O3,TiO2,TixOy then sponge is reacted with KOH conc.===>then sponge is treated with Conc. HCl and boiled with till turns to pink-red.


[Edited on 29-10-2009 by halogenstruck]


You can improve that method by adding KClO3 + Al, to the TiO2/Al mix, as well as some CaF2 as a slag fluidiser. The added KClO3 + 2 Al ---> KCl + Al2O3 generates enough heat (provided you add enough KClO3/Al stoichiom. mix) to obtain the reaction products (Ti metal + alumina, the KCl boils off) in the molten state (and not as a sintered sponge) from which the metal then separates more or less neatly. Instead of KClO3 I've also used NaNO3 and CaSO4 (adjust stoichiometries). BaO2 and KClO4 would probably also work: any oxidiser capable of oxidising Al to alumina.

halogenstruck - 1-11-2009 at 21:42

thx a lot for your answer,i tried to dissolve the Ti sponge in Conc. HCl but it dissolved very hardly.
it`s a good idea to use a flux,i didn`t think about that before.
i would be grateful if u explain what formulation u use and how much metal u prepare every time,have u ever analysed it quantitaviely?
it is a good idea if u add NiO to the mixture and make NiTi,nitinol,shape memory alloy, the molecular ratio is 1:1
:)

[Edited on 2-11-2009 by halogenstruck]

woelen - 1-11-2009 at 23:54

First a comment on your language. Please use normal sentences, punctuation and words.

Back on topic, titanium metal dissolves slowly in conc. HCl, even when the metal is pure. I have a fine powder of titanium (99.7% purity) and even that only very slowly dissolves, giving a deep blue/purple solution. On dilution this liquid becomes more purple. So, bulk metal will dissolve even more slowly. Of course, heating speeds up the dissolving of the metal, but it is not sufficiently self-heating to keep it hot.

You can enhance the speed of dissolving the metal considerably if you add a small amount of NaF or NH4HF2 to the liquid. With fluoride added, even in 10% HCl the metal quickly and completely dissolves, giving a green solution (apparently some complex with fluoride is formed) and lots of hydrogen gas. When the green liquid is oxidized by air it first becomes brown (mixed oxidation states +3 and +4) and finally it becomes colorless, when all titanium has gone to oxidation state +4.

blogfast25 - 2-11-2009 at 04:52

Quote: Originally posted by halogenstruck  

it`s a good idea to use a flux,i didn`t think about that before.
i would be grateful if u explain what formulation u use and how much metal u prepare every time,have u ever analyse it quantitaviely?
it is a good idea if u add NiO to the mixture and make NiTi,nitinol,shape memory alloy, the molecular ratio is 1:1
:)



You'll find the information on formulation and methodology on the thread immediately below (start from top):

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10150#...

The overall best formulation was found to be (parts by weight):

TiO2 = 100 / Al = 72 / KClO3 = 61 / CaF2 = 47


I analysed the metal thus obtained quantitatively by dissolving a precisely known amount in simmering conc. HCl and titrating the solutions with standard Fe3+ solution, using KSCN (thiocyanide) as an indicator.

Ti3+ + Fe3+ ---> Ti4+ + Fe2+, endpoint is red due to formation of FeSCN2+.

This gave me an assay of about 80 % Ti on the acid-soluble part of the metal, the rest is mainly alloyed Al.

It should be possible to reduce the amount of alloyed Al by increasing the ratio of TiO2:Al from the stoichiometric 1:4/3 (= 3/4) to perhaps 1:1, thereby pushing TiO2 + 4/3 Al ---> Ti + 2/3 Al2O3 to the right, but I haven't studied that yet.

Another contributor here had his thermite Ti analysed with EDX (X-ray fluorescence) and obtained roughly the same result, if you bear in mind that the metal also contains some 10 - 15 % acid insoluble residue, mainly fine, annealed Al2O3 (slag):

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10249&...

It's possible to obtain binary (and more complex) alloys such as ferrotitanium (FeTi) by combining the oxides. In the case of the ferrotitanium alloy, if you get the ratio of Fe2O3/TiO2 right, no additional KClO3 is needed because the 'Classic Thermite' (Fe2O3 + Al) part of the formulation produces the heat needed to reach melting point. That worked very well for me.

This should be possible also using NiO but NiO has the drawback of being a monoxide:

NiO + 2/3 Al ---> Ni + 1/3 Al2O3, so it produces only 1/3 of a mole of alumina per mole of NiO, as opposed to KClO3 (or Fe2O3) which produces 1 mole of alumina per mole of KClO3 (or Fe2O3).

For a nickel titanium alloy with a Ti:Ni molar ratio of 1:1 the formulation would be (in moles):

TiO2 >>>>> 1 mole
NiO >>>>>> 1 mole
KClO3 >>>> x mole
Al >>>>>>> 4/3 + 2/3 + 2x mole
CaF2>>>>> y mole

Here x would have to be calculated so that the total amount of alumina formed would be close to the amount of alumina produced by the straight TiO2/KClO3 formulation. y is calculated by maintaining the ratio of CaF2/Al the same as in the straight TiO2/KClO3 formulation... Such a TiO2/NiO formulation would yield about the same heat of reaction.


[Edited on 2-11-2009 by blogfast25]

blogfast25 - 2-11-2009 at 05:03

Quote: Originally posted by woelen  

Back on topic, titanium metal dissolves slowly in conc. HCl, even when the metal is pure. I have a fine powder of titanium (99.7% purity) and even that only very slowly dissolves, giving


Well, how long is a piece of string?

For my standard Ti3+ solutions, I dissolved 1" x 1/4" bars of 99.9 % Ti bought from ebay. At steam bath temperatures and using about 30 % HCl the reaction is very vigorous but it still takes a few hours to reach about 0.1 M concentration.

If you add an alkali to the solution, a black precipitate of Ti(OH)3.3 H2O (?) or Ti2O3.n H2O (?) forms which oxidises immediately to TiO2 by means e.g. added hypochlorite (bleach).

Never tried the fluoride trick, I would have expected the TiF6 (3-) complex (assuming that's what it is) to be colourless.


woelen - 3-11-2009 at 01:48

If I add e.g. 500 mg of titanium powder to 5 ml of concentrated HCl and I do not apply heat, then it takes several hours before all of it has dissolved. The resulting solution then is dark blue/purple. Indeed, when alkali is added, a black precipitate is formed. The black precipitate is so strongly reducing that small bubbles of hydrogen are formed inside the precipitate, it reduces water. Slowly, the precipitate turns white, even without adding an oxidizer like bleach.

More info and pictures can be found here: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/solutions/ti.html

blogfast25 - 3-11-2009 at 05:37

Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
If I add e.g. 500 mg of titanium powder to 5 ml of concentrated HCl and I do not apply heat, then it takes several hours before all of it has dissolved. The resulting solution then is dark blue/purple. Indeed, when alkali is added, a black precipitate is formed. The black precipitate is so strongly reducing that small bubbles of hydrogen are formed inside the precipitate, it reduces water. Slowly, the precipitate turns white, even without adding an oxidizer like bleach.

More info and pictures can be found here: http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/solutions/ti.html


Yes, heat is everything.

I didn't allow the black precipitate to stand, so I didn't see the bubbles.

But several of my Ti3+ solutions, now over a year old and once a nice deep blue, have completely cleared up, despite having been stoppered hermetically. This is more true of those kept on my lab bench (where they get some direct light) than of those kept in my lab cupboards.

Presumably they have slowly oxidised but there is no TiO2 precipitate, so they must contain TiOCl2.

There's something slightly strange about this: nascent hydrogen swiftly reduces TiO2+ solutions to Ti3+, as you know we do this by adding some Al or Zn to the acid titanyl solution, the evolving hydrogen reduces the Ti from +IV to +III.

With the black precipitate and my TiCl3 solutions the opposite occurs: here H +I is reduced to H 0 by Ti +III...



[Edited on 3-11-2009 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 6-3-2011 at 15:39

here a video how to make TiCl3 , disolving titanium is very hard , but aftear repeting many time the Ti will disolve to a very black purple solution.


<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t1ymlBrHKqM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Edited on 6-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 6-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 7-3-2011 at 07:09

To do this for larger quantities you need a decent refluxer, so the HCl can simmer away without vapours entering the atmosphere. It’s a slow process: from bulk metal (not powder) to dissolve 1 g takes several hours at BP, using 20 – 25 w% HCl. Conc. HCl will be slightly faster.

The only other way I know of obtaining Ti3+ is to dissolve TiO2 into boiling conc. H2SO4 or to fuse it with (Na,K)HSO4. That yields a solution of Ti[+IV]OSO4 (titanyl sulphate). Reduce this to Ti3+ by adding HCl and aluminium or zinc metal.

Adding dilute H2O2 to a solution of Ti3+ oxidises it to a peroxo Ti[+IV] complex with a very characteristic, strong red colour (positive test for Ti)

plante1999 - 7-3-2011 at 07:47

i think also the fluoro complex is the oxidation state III.(normaly only the oxidation state 3 can be in water.)

here a video. <iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/egb_GG9Ftzw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

@blogfast25 , at this time i make TiI4 i will post the result i 1-2hour.


[Edited on 7-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 7-3-2011 at 12:45

I’m a little surprised that you’re getting a reaction at all, especially at RT: the amount of HF you’ve got in there must be quite small.

Also, the green colour of the compound surprises me: is your titanium quite pure or is it more like ferrotitanium or chromotitanium?

plante1999 - 7-3-2011 at 12:49

my titanium is 99.99 from alfa easar.
also like i said in the video the fluoro complex dont form in other solvent than water.

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 7-3-2011 at 14:13

Try precipitating it with strong NaOH. Although I'm pretty sure dissolving Ti in HF gives TiF4, the oxidation state could be determined by adding alkali: white precipitate is TiO2 [+IV], black is Ti2O3.nH2O [+III]...

plante1999 - 7-3-2011 at 14:17

i already do a video on this here (titanium hydroxide witch will disproportionate to hydrous tio2).

here with ticl3 and instruction.

<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tzD0_J03KpM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


here with the fluoro complex , same precipitate. ( no instruction).

<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eKfwMx824wc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

plante1999 - 7-3-2011 at 14:26

today i try to purify TiI4 and i fail horibly , also i find something very interresing when y try to make ICl
in CHCl3 and i ad a titanium piece



when i ad the Ti. a very large ammount of effervessence occured , and iodine precipitate , it seem that Ti is severely corroded by ICl to form TiCl4 and I2.








edit the picture need to be inverted.

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 7-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 9-3-2011 at 08:32

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
also i find something very interresing when y try to make ICl
in CHCl3 and i ad a titanium piece



Huh?

Elawr - 9-3-2011 at 08:56

What otc sources exist for titanium metal?

blogfast25 - 9-3-2011 at 09:13

TiO2 is readily available and can be thermited to crude metal. Search this board or google it.

plante1999 - 9-3-2011 at 12:01

in fact i was making iodine monochloride in chloroform (for making carbon tetrachloride) and i thinked , does the titanium will disolve in a solution of ICl.And i ad titanium in.

watson.fawkes - 9-3-2011 at 12:44

Quote: Originally posted by Elawr  
What otc sources exist for titanium metal?
My motto: always check to see if McMaster-Carr carries it.

UnintentionalChaos - 9-3-2011 at 12:52

Quote: Originally posted by Elawr  
What otc sources exist for titanium metal?


Well, aside from buying turnings for pyro from pyro suppliers or ebay, go here: http://theringlord.com

Left bar, click specials. Then click "strip and disc specials" scroll down and find titanium discs or titanium scrap strip. It's CP grade 1. The discs are $25/lb, the strip is $16/lb and would probably make a good, cheap support for chlorate electrodes

cyanureeves - 10-3-2011 at 06:55

dang it all plante1999 is your life all about titanium? just joking! i thought i had titanium because i have a titanium camping pot and it turns out that it is probably just coated with titanium.its light as a feather so the base metal is also light, whatever it is.im gonna dissolve it in hcl acid and try to get a hydroxide.what do you get if you use titanium as an anode in a hydrochloric acid solution or sulfiric? i would of thought chlorotitanic acid and ticl3 to be the same thing.you got a bunch of cool colors.the eck-cuashun of titanic love!cool accent.:D

blogfast25 - 10-3-2011 at 08:26

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
i thought i had titanium because i have a titanium camping pot and it turns out that it is probably just coated with titanium.its light as a feather so the base metal is also light, whatever it is.im gonna dissolve it in hcl acid and try to get a hydroxide.what do you get if you use titanium as an anode in a hydrochloric acid solution or sulfiric? i would of thought chlorotitanic acid and ticl3 to be the same thing.you got a bunch of cool colors.the eck-cuashun of titanic love!cool accent.:D


Remember that titanium isn’t particularly light: its density is in fact about the same as that of steel (roughly speaking). But for ductile Ti the ratio of elastic modulus to density is much higher than for steel, better even than Al (off the top of my head). Unless your camping pot is particularly light because it’s particularly thin walled it’s likely to be plain ole’ aluminium…

Again off the top off my head, if is Ti, you’ll probably get plain old TiO2 with your proposed dissolution but don't quote me on that. Dissolving Ti in boiling conc. HCl works (and gives TiCl3) but is a work of patience!

'Titanium' is now also a misleading term that has entered the lexicon of greedy ad men...



[Edited on 10-3-2011 by blogfast25]

cyanureeves - 10-3-2011 at 10:12

ah, i see! titanium is lighter because less can be used to match the strength of steel, like a bantam weight packing as big a punch as a heavy weight.i filed the titanium to get to the base metal quicker by electrolyzing and it still bubbles for just a bit in sulfuric acid/water solution and then stops. the anode looks like brass when i take it out.the titanium in hcl acid is now grey and the acid is purple. i guess the color will stay purple even if the base is dissolved and i wont know how much titanium i got until i drop the hydroxide.the metal still looks intact and is turning out to be the metal from hell that would'nt dissolve.good thing i only took off one handle and it's ear.

plante1999 - 10-3-2011 at 10:15

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
dang it all plante1999 is your life all about titanium?

cool accent.:D


1: almost,(including zirconium) is my life but i need 5% of my head for my vital function.I already try to get at 2% but I forget to breathe.

2-thanks!


and for your camping pot , the multinational like said: it is made in titanium because people thing: wow it must be really rare and good. (but in reality often only a layer of titanium is present), how many times I have understand titanium drill .. I think .. ........(someone thing he ave a titanium drill but he have a micro layer of titanium nitride).


[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 10-3-2011 at 12:42

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
ah, i see! titanium is lighter because less can be used to match the strength of steel, like a bantam weight packing as big a punch as a heavy weight.i filed the titanium to get to the base metal quicker by electrolyzing and it still bubbles for just a bit in sulfuric acid/water solution and then stops. the anode looks like brass when i take it out.the titanium in hcl acid is now grey and the acid is purple. i guess the color will stay purple even if the base is dissolved and i wont know how much titanium i got until i drop the hydroxide.the metal still looks intact and is turning out to be the metal from hell that would'nt dissolve.good thing i only took off one handle and it's ear.


The purple sure as hell points to Ti3+. For a conclusive test, take a sample and add some peroxide to it. A red peroxo Ti [+IV] complex is formed when Ti3+ is pesent. This is considered a positive and conclusive test for Ti.

blogfast25 - 10-3-2011 at 12:45

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
someone thing he ave a titanium drill but he have a macro layer of titanium nitride).


[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]


He means MICRO, not macro. A layer a few molecules thick only... The thinness of the layer causes the 'rainbow efect' through thin layes diffraction...


[Edited on 10-3-2011 by blogfast25]

cyanureeves - 10-3-2011 at 15:02

red?cool! the people at snow peak camping gear e-mailed and assured me that the trek 900 cookset is made of pure titanium. the can is about 5 by 5 inches and weighs under 4 oz. it turns the anode blue in sulfuric acid solution ending in all the rainbow colors as it nears the connection,but i do see a rainbow color where i burned the pot.titanium seems to want to go on and on just making bubbles with s.steel.goodness that piece of metal is still going in boiling hydrochloric acid and even a drop produced a bit precipitate with ammonia.

plante1999 - 10-3-2011 at 15:48

nice to understand, in a futur video i will show how to make pur sulution of H2TiCl6,or H2TiF6 a way you could use :

first get titanium piece.
than disolve man exxess of titanium in 9% hydrochloric acid with refux ((very long) or in 9% hydrofluoric acid:very dangerous:If you arent a experienced chemist dont do that)


you could make it safely from this way(take all safety gear): take a 100ml steel paint can with a steel or copper tube as condencer witch will go in a 120 ml hdpe bottle. take 21g of NaF with 60g of NaHSO4(an exess is better) and disolve it in 60ml of water outside in the steel can, pour 40ml of water in the hdpe bottle (make sur that the condenser go in the water) and make and snow/HCl bath for the bottle.Than distill the solution of NaF in the steel retort(like if you distil HCl ). go away from the set up . after that take the hdpe bottle and you have arround 8-10%HF solution.


when you ave your TiCl3 or fluoro complex you can fallow this guide from:
1=TiCl3
2=fluoro complex



1-1 take the TiCl3 and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.

1-2take the fluoro complex and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.



2-1ad the minimum amount you can of 9% HCl to the hydroxide a pale clear yelow solution will form.

2-2ad the minimum amount you can of 9% HF to the hydroxide a clear solution will form.



why all the time i sayd to use 9% is because i find it react more readily than other conssentration. for your camping pot you will probably need to cut it in piece (very difficult). also you can make very conssentred solution by boiling it to 1/4 of is volume.

with this 2 solution you can make almost all compound of titanium.

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

cyanureeves - 10-3-2011 at 17:17

Geesh i hope you did'nt think i got that Ti3+ with electrodes because i didn't try the hcl acid/titanium by electrolyzing i just boiled the titanium in hcl acid.now the purpleish bits that precipitate with ammonia is the hydroxide and turns to the white stuff(o2).what is Ti(OH)2 ? the hydroxide does'nt last very long does it? i found that plating titanium cannot be done but a lost russian book claims it can with Ti(OH)2.who knows? there might be a secret.

plante1999 - 10-3-2011 at 18:16

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
i already do a video on this here (titanium hydroxide witch will disproportionate to hydrous tio2).

here with ticl3 and instruction.

<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tzD0_J03KpM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





you sould read this , and understand the video. the formula is Ti(OH)2O.it will disproportionate to TiO2 nH2O witch is white.

and nice for your 100th post

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 11-3-2011 at 07:49

Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
Geesh i hope you did'nt think i got that Ti3+ with electrodes because i didn't try the hcl acid/titanium by electrolyzing i just boiled the titanium in hcl acid.now the purpleish bits that precipitate with ammonia is the hydroxide and turns to the white stuff(o2).what is Ti(OH)2 ? the hydroxide does'nt last very long does it? i found that plating titanium cannot be done but a lost russian book claims it can with Ti(OH)2.who knows? there might be a secret.


Ammonia precipitates Ti2O3.nH2O (black, basically) from a TiCl3 solution. But that hydroxide is oxidised to TiO2 even with water (it reduces water - LOL). It cannot be isolated as Ti2O3.

blogfast25 - 11-3-2011 at 07:54

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
nice to understand, in a futur video i will show how to make pur sulution of H2TiCl6,or H2TiF6 a way you could use :

first get titanium piece.
than disolve man exxess of titanium in 9% hydrochloric acid with refux ((very long) or in 9% hydrofluoric acid:very dangerous:If you arent a experienced chemist dont do that)


you could make it safely from this way(take all safety gear): take a 100ml steel paint can with a steel or copper tube as condencer witch will go in a 120 ml hdpe bottle. take 21g of NaF with 60g of NaHSO4(an exess is better) and disolve it in 60ml of water outside in the steel can, pour 40ml of water in the hdpe bottle (make sur that the condenser go in the water) and make and snow/HCl bath for the bottle.Than distill the solution of NaF in the steel retort(like if you distil HCl ). go away from the set up . after that take the hdpe bottle and you have arround 8-10%HF solution.


when you ave your TiCl3 or fluoro complex you can fallow this guide from:
1=TiCl3
2=fluoro complex



1-1 take the TiCl3 and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.

1-2take the fluoro complex and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.



2-1ad the minimum amount you can of 9% HCl to the hydroxide a pale clear yelow solution will form.

2-2ad the minimum amount you can of 9% HF to the hydroxide a clear solution will form.



why all the time i sayd to use 9% is because i find it react more readily than other conssentration. for your camping pot you will probably need to cut it in piece (very difficult). also you can make very conssentred solution by boiling it to 1/4 of is volume.

with this 2 solution you can make almost all compound of titanium.

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by plante1999]


That's theory, Plante. My experience with TiO2 is that no matter how 'fresh' it is, it WILL NOT redisolve in HCl, it is very much like SiO2 in that respect... But it will easily dissolve in HF... "H2TiCl6" doesn't really exist.

plante1999 - 11-3-2011 at 10:37

in one of my reference about titanium it said that H2TiCl6 existe , it said that it is the acid of (NH4)2TiCl6 and it can be synthesis with titanium hydroxide or hydrous TiO2 witch have the formula : TiO2 nH2O , and with my experiment (see my video how to make chlorotitanic acid) it work(the hydroxide and the hydrous titanium dioxide disolve readily in HCl , and fallowing wath i read the formula of the hydroxide is Ti(OH)2O. and blogfast i alway experiment wath i said ( or read it) befor posting , or i will say : I think
....

@do you have pdf document about titanium chemistery , if yes can you please send it to my , i am alvay in search about titanium chemistery document , i have arround 1300 pages about titanium and zirconium chemistery. Thanks!

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 11-3-2011 at 14:22

Plante:

The video above doesn't show the oxidation of Ti(OH)3 (or whatever way you want to formulated hydrated Ti [III] oxide) and doesn't show the dissolution of the formed TiO(OH)2 in HCl either... Are you talking about another video? If so, which one?

And if you’re into titanium you might like this article of mine. Follow the links for the serious stuff…

plante1999 - 11-3-2011 at 14:29

yes im talking about another video sorry for the inconveniance, here the video. here in the video you can see precipitate of fresh ti hydroxide witch i react with hydrochloric acid ,it disolving it very fast.

<iframe sandbox title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eKfwMx824wc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

blogfast25 - 11-3-2011 at 14:44

Plante… hmmm… it’s rather difficult to see any TiO(OH)2 AT ALL in the first part of this video as everything is obscured by the label (tape)!

I will be trying this maybe even tomorrow. If it really does work, why not try and isolate solid (NH4)TiCl6?

plante1999 - 11-3-2011 at 15:09

i will probably made another video about it (with more small tape)also ammonium chloride and hydrochloric acide dont make an infusible white precipitate with sodium hydrogen carbonate(also i read that ti hydroxide + binary acid = alway H2TiX6 , X=halogen,in this book chlorotitanic acid solution is described like a pale clear yellow solution(witch correspond to the resuld i have obtained)) i precipitate it from fluoro complex , i dont know if you ave accex to HF or an substitute but it is very easily made, also the formula is (NH4)2TiCl6 probably i will make a reaction that i think will work (i will check in my bookshelf about titanium, if is it the best way) make this reaction:

2NH4OH + H2TiCl6 -> 2H2O + (NH4)2TiCl6

from wath i read (NH4)2TiCl6 is moderatly solube in water. and it is yellow.


[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 11-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 06:40

To make (NH4)2TiCl6, assuming it CAN be isolated, start from a roughly known quantity of TiCl3 or TiOSO4 in solution. Precipitate with alkali as TiO2 and filter and wash carefully with plenty water. Redissolve in excess HCl (assuming that works like you claim) and add required amount of NH4Cl (TiCl4 + 2 NH4Cl --- > (NH4)2TiCl6). Then evaporate by simmering until solution starts sputtering and/or solid matter starts to appear. Ice the solution: most of the (NH4)2TiCl6 should drop out. Gather on a plastic tea strainer and wash carefully with iced water.

The K salt may be easier (lower cold solubility, generally speaking) to obtain.

Dissolving significant quantities of Ti metal using weak HCl or (even weaker) HF, like you’ve been doing, is a very slow process though. You should really try fusing commercial TiO2 with (Na, K)HSO4 or with a mixture of conc. H2SO4 and (NH4)2SO4…


[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 12-3-2011 at 06:57

in fact i dont think NH4Cl will work because it is somewath acidic and H2TiCl6 is an acid , so i thinkyou need to use a base , like NH4OH.

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 07:25

No, no, no, no: there’s no problem AT ALL, with NH4Cl’s weak acidity. Here’s some stuff about the preparation of a homolog of (NH4)2TiCl6, namely (NH4)2SnCl6 and K2SnCl6:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14911

Remember: the ‘H2TiCl6’ that you speak of is highly dissociated in water: H2TiCl6 + 2H2O < --- > 2H3O+ + TiCl6 (2-)

In fact the more acidity, the better! It prevents the TiCl6 (2-) anion from hydrolysing!


[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 12-3-2011 at 07:29

o yes i have forgoted this , thank you blogfast25!


here a very long passage of brauer.


Quote:

Ammonium Hexachlorotitanate
(NH4)2[TiCl6]
This is a good, easily measured starting material for preparing hydrochloric acid solutions of titanium, since it forms concentrated, stable solutions in water or dilute hydrochloric acid.
TiCl4 + 2NH4C1 = (NH4)2[TiCl6]
189.7 107.0 29G.7
The preparation comprises precipitation of (NH4)2[TiCls] from an HCl-saturated solution, using a special apparatus which may also be employed in many other syntheses.
A 200-ml. wide-neck Erlenmeyer flask is used to hold 100 ml. of solution. The flask is closed off with a closely fitting three-hole rubber cap ("fermentation cap"). A glass stirrer, preferably of the twist drill type, is inserted in the center hole; a drop of glycerol is used for lubrication and gas seal. The use of a ground joint sealed to a mercury-seal agitator is also reccommended. Laborious centering of the stirrer is avoided and easy assembly and dismantling of the apparatus promoted by coupling the stirrer to the motor shaft (or the speed reducer shaft) by means of a piece of strong, rigid rubber vacuum hose. The direction of rotation of the stirrer is such that the center of the liquid is pushed down; higher agitation rates can be reached with this arrangement without danger of splashing, and the stirring is also more efficient.
The flask is supported at the neck by a clamp which holds it in a cooling bath at a depth so that it is covered with coolant to just below the clamp level while still leaving enough coolant underneath the flask to provide cooling of the bottom.
The gas inlet tube need not dip into the solution, since the rate of absorption of HC1 in the vigorously stirred liquid is so rapid that it is almost controlled by the input rate alone; possible plugging of the inlet tube is also avoided by not letting the tube dip into solution. The HC1 addition rate is controlled to avoid the formation of a mist above the stirred mixture, a point at which evaporation losses just begin. The greater the stirring rate, the higher the rate at which the HC1 may be introduced, and the sooner the end of the run. Complete saturation of 100 ml. of precipitation solution requires less than one hour.
The HC1 flow rate is sharply reduced toward the end of the run. The progress and termination of the HC1 absorption can be followed by means of bubble counters inserted ahead of and behind the precipitation flask.
The HC1 generator must be capable of yielding a continuous stream of gas and must also allow a wide range of adjustment in the flow rate; in addition, it should be easy to start, give an air-free gas stream as soon as possible after the start, and stop generating gas shortly after being turned turned off. The generator described on p. 280 fulfills these conditions less well than the apparatus developed by W. Seidel [Chem. Fabrik 11, 408 (1938)], in which cone, hydrochloric and cone, sulfuric acids react to give a good yield of HC1; this is accomplished by dropping the acids separately onto a packing of glass beads.
If only small quantities of HC1 are required, the most convenient generator is still the Kipp, which utilizes the reaction of cone, sulfuric acid with lumps of NH4C1, particularly since the gas does not have to be dried. However, foaming is quite pronounced at larger HC1 flows.
Returning now to the precipitation of (NH4)3[TiCl]6» gaseous HC1 is introduced at 0°C into a solution of 6 g. of TiCU in 100 ml. of aqueous (7:1) hydrochloric acid containing about 4 g. of NH4C1. The HC1 gas is added until saturation. Then the HC1 flow is stopped, but stirring is continued until complete precipitation. If the precipitation rate is low, the yellow (NH4)3[TiCl8] is obtained in the form of coarse crystals averaging 0.1 mm.
The precipitate is separated from most of the mother liquor by a short suction filtration through coarse fritted glass (without allowing air to be drawn through the compound), and the crystals are then pressed between two pieces of filter paper. If an asbestos filter is used, the compound must be repeatedly boiled with cone, hydrochloric acid and then very thoroughly washed.



PROPERTIES: Yellow octahedra, probably of the KafPtCls] structure. May be stored for an indefinite period if moistened with hydrochloric acid and kept in a closed container; on washing with anhydrous ether and drying over cone. H3SO4 in a vacuum desiccator, decomposes with pronounced evolution of HC1. In moist air, forms a white hydrolysis product, which is unusual in still being soluble in water. REFERENCES: A. Rosenheim and O. Schiitte. Z. anorg. Chem. 26, 239 (1901); W. Fischer and W. Seidel. Z. anorg. allg. Chem. 247, 333 (1941); W. Seidel and W. Fischer. Z. anorg. allg. Chem. 247, 367 (1941).


altoug it doesn use H2TiCl6 , it said the prprety.
i will try today to make a tiny amout of it.

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 07:51

It would appear to prove that semi-stable chlorotitanium coordination complexes do exist. But (NH4)3TiCl8 makes no sense: that would make the oxidation state of Ti = +V, not +IV! ( + 3 - 8 + x = 0, ergo x = +5).

Check with Brauer (these texts don’t ‘export’ well…)

H2TiCl6, MAY, MAY, exist as a solid hydrate but I doubt it very much...

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 12-3-2011 at 08:03

the only solution is try to precipitate it.

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 08:44

Brauer’s method relies on the poor solubility of the ammonium salt in cold water, saturated with HCl. This makes me think my proposed 'hot' method above may not work. Firstly during simmering, assuming you started off with concentrated HCl (about 37 %), the HCl concentration gradually drops to about azeotropic HCl (about 20 w%), which MAY not be strong enough to prevent to TiCl6 (2-) from hydrolising acc. to:

TiCl6 (2-) + n H2O < -- > TiCl(6-n)OH(n) + n H+ + n Cl-

… all the way down to ‘TiO(OH)2’. And the heat will favour the hydrolysis too. But it’s worth a shot if you don’t want to mess around with HCl generators…

I’m sending you a U2U.


[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 12-3-2011 at 09:52

or you could ad a small amount of chlorosulfonic acid , i know it hydrolise but , small drop, drop by drop i think will work.

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 11:41

Well, I carried out the precipitation/redissolving experiment with TiO2/TiO(OH)2 and plante is correct: fresh ‘hydrated TiO2’ dissolves in HCl.

Starting point was a stock solution of pure (99.9 %) Ti metal in about 20 w% HCl, prepared June 2008. At the time this solution was of course nice blue/purple of Ti [+III] but after these years of storage in a cool, dark place all Ti [+III] has been oxidised to TiCl4, or rather TiCl6 (2-). The solution is about 0.05 M Ti:




50 ml of this solution in a pyrex kitchenware beaker, perfectly clear:




After adding some 5 M NaOH, TiO(OH)2 precipitates:



After adding some 20 w% HCl, the precipitate redissolves. The solution was then slightly yellow due to Fe3+ contamination of the HCl:




It doesn’t redissolve very quickly but didn’t need any heat either: by contrast fresh Zr(OH)4 does need heating to dissolve in HCl.

Tomorrow, time permitting, I’ll try and simmer some of this stock solution down, hopefully without hydrolysis, and add the required amount of NH4Cl to it…

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
or you could ad a small amount of chlorosulfonic acid , i know it hydrolise but , small drop, drop by drop i think will work.


Plante, the equilibria are what they are: fast or slow addition really plays very little part, as long as you stir or homogenise in some way.


[Edited on 12-3-2011 by blogfast25]

blogfast25 - 12-3-2011 at 13:54

In this experiment 50 ml of the 0.05 M TiCl6 (2-) with 0.3 g NH4Cl added was brought to the boil and simmered. At first the solution boils easily and clearly but after evaporating less than 20 ml the milkiness (TiO(OH)2) sets in:



And it gets of course progressively worse:



This shows just how sensitive the TiCl6 (2-) anion is to hydrolysis: after all, the initial concentration of Ti is really quite small and the ions that prevent hydrolysis like H3O+ and Cl- are very abundant. It’s all cooling down now but I don’t expect anything but ‘TiO2 milk’ in the morning…

plante1999 - 12-3-2011 at 15:00

probably we need to make this :



first get titanium piece.
than disolve man exxess of titanium in 9% hydrochloric acid with refux ((very long) or in 9% hydrofluoric acid:very dangerous:If you arent a experienced chemist dont do that)


you could make it safely from this way(take all safety gear): take a 100ml steel paint can with a steel or copper tube as condencer witch will go in a 120 ml hdpe bottle. take 21g of NaF with 60g of NaHSO4(an exess is better) and disolve it in 60ml of water outside in the steel can, pour 40ml of water in the hdpe bottle (make sur that the condenser go in the water) and make and snow/HCl bath for the bottle.Than distill the solution of NaF in the steel retort(like if you distil HCl ). go away from the set up . after that take the hdpe bottle and you have arround 8-10%HF solution.




1-1 take the TiCl3 and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.

1-2take the fluoro complex and ad very large ammount of ammonia , filter the hydroxide it dont affect the finnal product if it disproportionate to hydrous titanium dioxide , it will just be more long to react.



2-1ad the minimum amount you can of 9% HCl to the hydroxide a pale clear yelow solution will form.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
than react it with 30-37% ammonia should precipitate (NH4)2TiCl6 with 37% HCl (same prosses as ZrOCl2 or pass HCl gas trough the solution) ( i think it will work falloign somme deduction about he IVB cemistery).



[Edited on 12-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 13-3-2011 at 06:33

No, I don’t think that will work AT ALL. Your excess of ammonia will simply re-precipitate TiO(OH)2: we know just how sensitive to hydrolysis solutions of Ti [+IV] are. That sensitivity, BTW, is illustrated by the sulphate process for the production of TiO2. In it, ilmenite (FeTiO3) is dissolved in hot, conc. H2SO4. The next step is a crude separation of the Fe2+ and the TiO2+ by strongly diluting the solution of FeSO4 and TiOSO4: simply reducing the H3O+ concentration by diluting the solution with water causes the Ti to precipitate as TiO(OH)2, the FeSO4 stays in solution. No alkali needs to be used at this stage! The rest of the process is essentially reducing the FeSO4 content further, followed by vac. Filtering the TiO2 and calcining it to usable pigment.

Brauer’s starting solution (6g TiCl4, 100 ml strong HCl and 4 g NH4Cl) is essentially 0.3 M TiCl6 (2-) and 0.74 M NH4Cl in strong HCl, so the ratios are correct. Then saturate with HCl. But directly obtaining a 0.3 M solution of Ti by dissolving metal in HCl would take forever.

plante1999 - 13-3-2011 at 06:41

with HF it wont take forever and precipitate hydrous TiO2 filter it and re disolve it in HCl.

it is suposed to precipitate without boiling.

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 13-3-2011 at 07:07

Plante:

With anhydrous HF you can dissolve even calcined TiO2 in a jiffy!

But mixtures of bisulphate and NaF are just as dangerous as strong HF solutions. And bad for glassware too (use HDPE).

I strongly urge you to try the fusion of commercial TiO2 with (Na,K)HSO4 or (NH4)2SO4+H2SO4. Then precipitate as TiO(OH)2, filter and wash and redissolve in HCL... Other methods are either very slow or dangerous.

Why are you always talking about 9 % HCl? 20 to 32 % is usually readily available from your local hardware store!

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 13-3-2011 at 07:21

i have 32% HCl but i ave found that Ti and TiO2 disolve best in binnary acid at a concentration of 9% ,it react faster.



a this time i dont have TiO2 , i need to get another batch , i use a large amount of ti and zr coumpound.

here my ti and zr coumpound:

Ti
Zr
ZrO2
TiCl3
H2TiCl6
H2ZrF6
Ti fluoro complex

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 13-3-2011 at 10:26

The ‘TiO(OH)2’ that precipitated from hot, ‘H2TiCl6’ yesterday proved today not to be soluble in cold or hot HCl. Presumably it had already dehydrated too much to retain its solubility.

plante1999 - 13-3-2011 at 10:40

yes it cannot be disolved in HCl after an certain amount of time, it become : nonahydrated.

so in resume whe need to make 0.3 M TiCl6 (2-) and 0.74 M NH4Cl in strong HCl and pass HCl gas trough it to preciptate over time yellow (NH4)2TiCl6.

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 13-3-2011 at 11:26

Yes. BTW forget about that stuff about HCl generators. If' you're willing to make just a small amount, e.g. using 50 ml of HCl, I'm sure even the most primitive HCl generator will do, provided it generates at least enough HCl to reach saturation in the 50 ml. Calculate the amount needed to be on the safe side...

But the initial concentrations of Ti and NH4Cl will be crucial, no doubt about that.

[Edited on 13-3-2011 by blogfast25]

plante1999 - 13-3-2011 at 16:32

it aper that i made the first synthesis in this forum of (NH4)2TiCl6.

i take 5ml of very conssentred ti solution , i precipitate Titanium hydroxide and i filter it i get about 1cm cube of titanium hydroxide sludge , i disolved it in 30ml of 30% HCl and i ad 0.15g of NH4Cl. after 1 hour yellow powder precipitate out of the solution. when heated all the product volatilise , to form TiCl4, HCl , NH3.

[Edited on 14-3-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 14-3-2011 by plante1999]

blogfast25 - 14-3-2011 at 09:31

Did you cool? Saturate with HCl? Try and isolate the compound (filter and wash with acetone for instance)? Otherwise you may be too quick to jump to conclusions, you know!

plante1999 - 21-3-2011 at 17:44

yes saturated , i remade this experiment with 2 ml scale and after ading the amonium chloride i waith 1 week for precipitate , and i filter the precipitate , i lets it dry and y heat it. all the product voatilise and a lot HCl produce and a white fume (tio2). i will made a complete report of the experimentation in 4-5 day.

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 09:25

I obtained a very concentrated solution of TiCl3, its quite viscous.
I put it in the freezer and maybe some crystals would form, but I doubt it very much...
I used vacuum distillation to achieve this concentration, its all purple.
I added H2O2 to the to the solution and it became bright red, very similar to blood.
At the moment the red solution is emitting oxygen, due to hydrogen peroxide decomposition and a orange-white precipitate is settling at the bottom (hydrous TiO2 may be?).
If anyone want pictures I can try to dig up the cable from the camera to the computer.

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 09:58

Done,
Solid hydrated TiCl3, melts at about 150-200C.

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 09:59

I'l try another batch by dehydration with NaOH, but I got a feeling it won't be as good as this one.

blogfast25 - 6-7-2011 at 10:02

Quote: Originally posted by Mixell  
Done,
Solid hydrated TiCl3, melts at about 150-200C.


Please elaborate. Which hydrate? How obtained? MP determination?

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 10:08

That I do not know.
I received a solid with a melting point of around 200C, its completely purple and the surface shows signs of oxidation.
From Wikipedia:
"The three violet "layered" forms, named for their color and their tendency to flake, are called alpha, gamma, and delta."
"At least four distinct species have this formula; additionally hydrated derivatives are known."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium(III)_chloride

So I think its an hydrated derivative of one of those forms.

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 10:09

My fist post on this page explains how it was obtained, basically a hot super saturated liquid just "froze" into this form.

plante1999 - 6-7-2011 at 13:15

picture please , I have already make hydrated TiCl3 so it will help me to see if it is wath you claim it is.

Mixell - 6-7-2011 at 14:20

I think it will be difficult, as I can't find my camera-computer cable. And my phone camera sucks hard.
Anyway, this substance passes the hydrogen peroxide test with great success, all of the material dissolves into a blood red solution.
May be you can post some pictures of your stuff, and tell me how you obtained it? So I could compare the results.

the easy way - two

The WiZard is In - 16-7-2011 at 12:47



Titanium(III)-chloride-1-of-5.jpg - 172kB Titanium(III)-chloride-2-of-5.jpg - 253kB Titanium(III)-chloride-3-of-5.jpg - 180kB Titanium(III)-chloride-4-of-5.jpg - 194kB Titanium(III)-chloride-5-of-5.jpg - 192kB


djh
----
People who liked this
book also liked :—

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Chemical Plumbing and
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Lion850 - 17-4-2020 at 20:48

Report on making titanium (iii) chloride - this old thread seems the most applicable.

- 10g titanium powder in a 140ml beaker
- Add 33% HCl in stages until a total of 76g was added, this should be a slight excess of acid.
- Stir with stir bar. Initially a very slow reaction. Heat while stirring, switch off heat when reaction sped up. The beaker got so hot that I had to place it in cold water at one point to make sure it does not boil off acid.
- Proof that hydrogen was being released by holding a match in the beaker, nice pops from the bubbles :)
- The reaction seemed near completion in about 3 hours, but left overnight. Dark solution, purple in thin layer when swirled up the sides of the beaker. Solution appeared slightly oily (for lack of a better word).
- Next day filtered about 95% of the solution. Place filtrate in desiccator under high vacuum over NaOH.
- Test the remaining few ml of solution with H2O2 - vigorous reaction, heat generated, blood red solution.
- Left the crucible in the desiccator for 4 days, pulling up the vacuum a few times a day.
- Remove from desiccator after 4 days. Surprisingly dry mass, varying from bone dry where thinner to slightly damp where thicker. Dark purple color, see photo. Broke up into smaller pieces, into storage bottle. 40g recovered. See photo.
- Unsure of the yield because I do not know which hydrate it is.
- Did test with the small leftovers in the crucible: 1). Hygroscopic - gets wet when left. 2) Dark purple solution in water, that again gives the blood red solution after addition of a few drops of H2O2 (the red does not show well on the photo)

Any help with the following questions will be appreciated:
- What is the shelf life of TiCl3 in a clear glass jar?
- What is the red compound that forms when adding H2O2, and can it be isolated as a red solid?
- Any suggestions of further experiments using this TiCl3 - especially if it leads to colorful compounds?





1 TiCl3 crystals.jpg - 920kB 2 TiCl3 test.jpg - 378kB 3 TiCl3 bottled.jpg - 489kB

clearly_not_atara - 17-4-2020 at 21:22

TiCl3 is a unique reducing agent in organic chemistry; it tends to reduce nucleophilic substrates, while most reducing agents react with electrophiles. So for example it reduces only aromatic carbonyls:
https://chemistry-europe.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/1099-0690(200210)2002:19%3C3326::AID-EJOC3326%3E3.0.CO;2-V

It also catalyzes a number of transformations of oximes, in particular allowing for a unique synthesis of tetrazole derivatives from oximes and sodium azide:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004040391...

Most of the interesting chemistry of TiCl3 requires the anhydrous compound and takes place in nonaqueous solvents. Luckily, I think this is one of the metal halides that can be dehydrated by heating.

[Edited on 18-4-2020 by clearly_not_atara]

woelen - 18-4-2020 at 09:16

Very interesting experiment. TiCl3 indeed is strongly reducing. I wonder how pure it is. Probably it will contain quite some titanium(IV) as well. I know from experience that a solution of TiCl3 in dilute HCl, when left in contact with air, slowly becomes colorless, all of the titanium(III) being converted to titanium(IV).

The deep red material is a peroxo complex of titanium(IV). Addition of H2O2 first oxidizes the titanium(III) to titanium(IV) and excess H2O2 then forms an orange/red complex of titanium(IV). I do not know whether this can be isolated as a solid. You could try dissolving some TiCl3 in concentrated HCl and adding excess H2O2 and then using your vacuum desiccator to dry some of this.

Be careful though with peroxo complexes. Some of these complexes can become dangerously unstable when purified in the dry state and may explode. Not sure about the titanium(IV) complex, but with peroxo complexes you never know. So, do not make a large amount, try with 1 gram or so.

Lion850 - 18-4-2020 at 13:04

Thanks for the comments Woelen and Clearly.

Lion850 - 18-4-2020 at 22:57

Woelen - I put some of the red complex on a watch glass. See photo. This went into the desiccator under high vacuum where it started bubbling. See photo. After some 2 hours I came back to find a big yellow dome. See photo. I will leave it in the desiccator overnight to make sure it is dry and open it in the morning. I wonder what compound this is?


A6EEC70E-2E65-4560-A600-C3F8056153B6.jpeg - 1.3MB ED7C4ACB-5124-4FCD-9CB9-DF065AC8B0F6.jpeg - 1.1MB 86B4D520-6AC4-4ED9-B7AB-6D4AED09BDBD.jpeg - 1.7MB