Acetaldahyde and Fruit flies.

I don't know if this deserves a thread all its own but it is just an interesting observation I just made a little bit ago.

I have been looking into different methods of producing AcOH from Ethanol but I keep making Acetaldahyde which leaves the solution unoxidised in large quantitys. I decided to try a solution of MnSO4 in a partioned cell and electrochemical oxidise it to see if I could produce any Acetic acid at all. I turned on the voltage and made sure everything was running correctly. It seemed to be going ok and within seconds the solution turned cloudy. Checking to see if there was any smell of Acetic acid showed none had been produced yet or atlest not enough to be detected so I thought to give it more time and went inside to cook some dinner.

After about 1 hour or so I came back to something that struck me as cool and clearly showed the link between simple chemicals and biological creatures. The whole of the electrochemical cell when I came back to check on it was covered in fruit flys. Hundreds of them everywhere making the cell almost black in appearence.

Obviously there is a strong link between the Acetaldahyde that the cell is producing and pheromonal instincts of the fruit fly. From their point of view my electrochemical cell must have looked like a giant rotting apple ready for the picking. Sad that all they are going to find is a big bowl of warm H2SO4 with alcohol and MnSO4 in it.


Just thought I would share with everyone because its something I thought was pretty neat when I seen it. What other simple chemicals do you think could be used to attract various insects and critters alike? I remember when I was running the cell before in attempts to produce Benzaldahyde I had on more then one occasion have to pull dragon flys out of the cathode solution so I can't help but wounder if BnO mimics some kind of pheromone of the dragonfly as well.

[Edited on 29-9-2009 by Sedit]

So your saying that they go for Ethanol much of the time as well? I sure hate to think that a mutant batch of fruit flys going nuts over the Acetaldahyde are what are attacking my cell.... then again a mutant batch of critters is every mad scientist dreams .


BTW I have a site that is shows a massive amount on insect pheromones that I will look so I can post the link.

Yellowjackets? The name is applied to several paper wasps of the family Vespidae, with yellow and black stripes, especially the mostly eastern American wasp Vespula Maculifrons; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespula and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket .

I wonder if the same pheromone could be used to attract and destroy the main introduced pest wasp species here in New Zealand, the German or "Waikato" wasp, Vespula Germanica, dealt with on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_wasp , and several New Zealand web-sites including http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents/conservation/threats... .

It looks very much like Vespula Maculifrons. They arrived in New Zealand around 1945, allegedly in the form of a fertilized hibernating queen wasp in a cargo of scrap aluminium from junked World War 2 military aircraft from Europe, which was destined for melting-down, and which had been sent to the Waikato region (which has a light-aircraft industry). They quickly spread over the rest of the North Island during the 1950s, and then "hitched a ride" into the South Island.

The live mainly in nests in the ground, and sometimes in big old hollow trees. In my part of New Zealand, the nests frequently keep going over winter, reaching huge sizes unless found and destroyed. As well as being a hazard from their stings, they are a menace to the bee-keeping and fruit-growing industries, and to native insects and birds by helping themselves to the honey-dew secreted in summer by some native tree species, and by eating insects and sometimes chicks.

A bounty was once paid in New Zealand for each German queen wasp collected in the springtime (when emerging from hibernation) and given to the Department of Agriculture. But mass destruction of overwintering queens had virtually no effect on wasp populations the following summer. (Even if 99.9 percent of the potential queens were eliminated, the same number of annual colonies would remain.)

In recent years, the "common wasp", Vespula Vulgaris (which has broader black bands and is much more aggressive, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespula_vulgaris and especially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_wasp ), somehow got into New Zealand, in spite of much tighter biosecurity controls on imported goods, possibly by being blown across the sea from Australia. Also found here since 1979 is the Asian paper wasp (Polistes chinensis, which is similar in color but much slimmer, builds suspended nests like the related native red wasp containing only up to a few dozen wasps, and eats monarch butterfly caterpillars). However, they are not as common as the German wasp, except for Vespula Vulgaris in the South Island.

Wasp venom contains a chemical "alarm pheromone," released into the air, signaling guard wasps to come and sting whoever or whatever gets in their way, literally "scrambling" like the Air Force. If one kills a wasp just outside a nest by hitting it, that wasp will give off a pheromone which will penetrate the nest. Some flowers (particularly orchids) and fruits have volatile scents, including Chiloglottone, that appear to mimic the pheromone.



[Edited on 30-9-09 by JohnWW]

Quote: Originally posted by JohnWW

Wasp venom contains a chemical "alarm pheromone," released into the air, signaling guard wasps to come and sting whoever or whatever gets in their way, literally "scrambling" like the Air Force. If one kills a wasp just outside a nest by hitting it, that wasp will give off a pheromone which will penetrate the nest. [Edited on 29-9-09 by JohnWW]

It's funny unless it's happening to you. OK, even then it's funny, but only later (while explaining the event to others or watching the video of yourself running in circles and screaming like a bitch).

Anyway,

I had thought of burst charges, but then I considered it "cruel and unusual".

And hilarity ensues.

*pssht...burst charges away...Roger that...WASP crew on deck and live in 5...4...3...2..."

Or, I suppose we could scramble the FRUIT FLY squadron, instead (only effective in California). WHOA.

Seriously:

I was only stung about 7 times, and I was lucky. Targets treated with N3MBA saw over 100 "hits" (without rousting the nest), I have attached a picture of my foot (the one with only *one* sting, which remained like this for about 7 days. Imagine 100.

Brrrrrr.

O3



[Edited on 29-9-2009 by Ozone]

Pheromone synthesis might be a pretty interesting concepts; a cross between chemistry and biology. My only question is, how would one go about the synthesis of this compound? Given one had on hand, 4- methyl pentanoic acid (isohexanoic acid), the synthesis would not be very difficult I presume. Reaction of the compound with ammonia would produce 4- methyl pentanamide, which one could easily convert to the primary amine via the hoffmann route (using the fairly common reagents of bromine and sodium hydroxide, in an aqueous solvent). Finally, reacting the 3- methyl butylamine product with a dilute solution of acetic acid (I would use a diluted reagent for evident safety purposes ) would give use the necessary 3- methylbutyl acetamide (wasp pheromone).

The only trouble is, isohexanoic acid, isn't exactly readily available for the home chemist. Any ideas on how the hell one would go about synthesising it?

Quote: Originally posted by Theophrastus_2

Finally, reacting the 3- methyl butylamine product with a dilute solution of acetic acid (I would use a diluted reagent for evident safety purposes ) would give use the necessary 3- methylbutyl acetamide (wasp pheromone).

That ends up as an acetate salt of your amine...

Anyway... you could probably make isoamyl amine from the corresponding halide or alcohol before reacting with acetic anhydride.

sparky (~_~)

P.S. Blattellaquinone has a relatively simple structure... making it in the garage is bound to yield... "interesting"... results.

How disgusting but oh what fun it would be in the town near me where most of the people are dirty A-holes anyway.



Synthesis seems simple enough according to this,

Source:http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/83/i08/8308notw1.html

Not sure its exactly something I would want to synthesis around my house though given that 5000 female roaches only produce 5ug of the compound meaning that even if you only synthesized one half of a gram of the material male roaches from miles away would think that there was an orgy going on at your place.

[Edited on 25-10-2009 by Sedit]

I one made paraformaldehyde by heating POM (the engineering plastic) It went so good that a large excess of HCHO was released in the lab, at the moment when I started to tear my ass off, I took the apparatus and ran out of the lab with it, and left it as it was, when I came back a lot of -do-not-know-what- insect collected around it.. the one which springing with a cracking sound when falls to its back to get on foot again.. There was so many of them that I must not had been a coindicence! strange!
Anyone with a pheromone synth that attract rich and clever chemistry liking girls?

"click beetles" ehh I like the coherence of english!
what about shaking 1000 bombardier beetle in a closed stainless steel can?

Yeh english people are lazy at naming things so we just name it as it sounds....
"Hey whats that noise..." ...
...."Eh must be one of those darn Click beetle thingys"


As far as a SS can... yeh I can picture that making one hell of a racket. Make some formaldahyde and catch some.

Honestly im kind of shocked the government hasn't invested more intrest in the control of insects and animals in warfar. I think it could be like the good ol' days back in egypt with locus and scab flys fucking the enemys day up.

Quote: Originally posted by Jimmymajesty

I one made paraformaldehyde by heating POM (the engineering plastic) It went so good that a large excess of HCHO was released in the lab, at the moment when I started to tear my ass off, I took the apparatus and ran out of the lab with it, and left it as it was, when I came back a lot of -do-not-know-what- insect collected around it.. the one which springing with a cracking sound when falls to its back to get on foot again.. There was so many of them that I must not had been a coindicence! strange! Anyone with a pheromone synth that attract rich and clever chemistry liking girls?

There is a substance that can attract rich dumb girls called cocaine.

How did you make formaldehyde out of POM (also called Delrin)? Seems like a good method.

- Ok back on topic about bugs -

Theodore Gray's driveway was covered in butterflies after he set off a sodium explosion. http://www.periodictable.com/Stories/011.2/

I also read about someone who put a bunch of millipedes in a jar and woke up on the floor after the HCN fumes knocked him out upon opening

I looked up some pheromones on the net, and all I can say regarding their synthesis.. forget about it..
It would require soo deep knowledge in chemistry that I can only dream of.. and requires exotic chems that are out of reach.. at least for me..

Yeah blattellaquinone is easy if you have blattellaquinone precursors

BTW palstic gears from an old casette recorder are usually made of pure POM.. or HCHO ethylene glycol copolymer, heat it for some time and after a small explosion cork the flask and lead the forming gases into water, the paraformaldehyde will precipitate in the water, take care not to clog the glass or plastic tube, also note that the initial explosion is quite violent, like hydrogen + oxygen mixtures.