Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Can a horizontal vortex of a fluid exist by strong suction?

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 00:40

Is it possible to create a horizontal vortex in a tubular flask, if the fluid is subjected to a strong suction?

Shingoshi

[Edited on 2009.7.25 by Shingoshi]

vtxbottle.gif - 178kB

kclo4 - 25-7-2009 at 01:02

http://www.touringmachine.com/FAAdocs/WindshearAC00-54/Figur...

Yes.. I'm sure if you google around a bit you'll find more, maybe behind airplanes, behind cars, fans? etc.

What is the picture for?

[Edited on 25-7-2009 by kclo4]

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 01:14

I'll be using this thread to ask more questions about the nature of vortices. Of particular interest is the nature of helical vortices. Anyone having experience with this topic, please post. I need your insights.

Thank you,
Shingoshi

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 01:19

Quote: Originally posted by kclo4  
http://www.touringmachine.com/FAAdocs/WindshearAC00-54/Figur...

Yes.. I'm sure if you google around a bit you'll find more, maybe behind airplanes, behind cars, fans? etc.

What is the picture for?

[Edited on 25-7-2009 by kclo4]


Maybe I should have been more precise. I was speaking of the vortices that normally occur when a fluid drains from a tubular shaped container. I am familiar with the other examples you've given here. But they don't apply.

That picture comes from this link:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/vtxbottle.htm

Shingoshi

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 01:20

Even more specifically, I mean a container of fluid laying on it's side. So that the liquid contained is forced to drain sideways.

Shingoshi

497 - 25-7-2009 at 01:37

I think it would be very hard to get a vortex to form that way in a horizontal arrangement. I would imagine it would have to be a VERY powerful suction to overcome the asymmetrical force that gravity provides.. If it would work at all.

That's true!

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 01:42

Quote: Originally posted by 497  
I think it would be very hard to get a vortex to form that way in a horizontal arrangement. I would imagine it would have to be a VERY powerful suction to overcome the asymmetrical force that gravity provides.. If it would work at all.


But I'm wondering if the vacuum was very strong, if the vortex would be forced to present as a helical, specifically due to the asymmetrical gravitational forces exerted.

Shingoshi

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 01:46

I think the simple answer is, if vortices occur in the venturis of injectors, it would likely exist in a horizontal tube as well. Provided the suction WAS strong enough.

Shingoshi

12AX7 - 25-7-2009 at 04:55

No. Pictured is a gravity vortex. Vacuum at the bottom isn't so much to suck as to remove liquid once it gets there.

Tim

gsd - 25-7-2009 at 06:57

@shingoshi

Are you using the word "Fluid" precisely or loosely? What I mean is are you interested only in liquids? or gases also?

Cyclone Separators are devices based on vortex principle. It is unusal to find horizontal Hydroclones (i.e. Liquid cyclones) but horizontal gas cyclones are very common.

gsd

Sorry! Incorrect usage!

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 12:43

Quote: Originally posted by gsd  
@shingoshi

Are you using the word "Fluid" precisely or loosely? What I mean is are you interested only in liquids? or gases also?

Cyclone Separators are devices based on vortex principle. It is unusal to find horizontal Hydroclones (i.e. Liquid cyclones) but horizontal gas cyclones are very common.

gsd


A liquid does not define all fluids. My bad!

Shingoshi

It was only an example...

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 12:45

Quote: Originally posted by 12AX7  
No. Pictured is a gravity vortex. Vacuum at the bottom isn't so much to suck as to remove liquid once it gets there.

Tim


I only wanted to show what I meant. I know this vortex is caused by gravity. But I wanted to know if I apply a very strong suction to a rigid bottle, would it be possible to lay the bottle on it's side and keep the vortex intact.

I specifically mean vacuum by use of a strong pump!

Shingoshi

[Edited on 2009.7.25 by Shingoshi]

JohnWW - 25-7-2009 at 19:57

That horizontal vortex in what looks like water in a cylindrical glass jar (or similar) looks as if it was produced by the rotation of a magnet at its bottom, caused by a laboratory magnetic stirrer. A very similar effect would be produced by filling the receptacle of a blender with water, and turning it on.

At least one of the books on Fluid Mechanics - that by White - and one of the Coulson & Richardson volumes, which I have uploaded, and the downloading links for which I have given in the Chemical Engineering books thread in the References section, should explain the fluid mechanics of vortices. I think that Streeter's Fluid Mechanics is also available as an ebook. To find links for the latter, look up the following search string on Google: Streeter "fluid mechanics" "rapidshare.com/files" PDF OR ZIP OR RAR OR DJVU

[Edited on 26-7-09 by JohnWW]

No magnetic personalities here!

Shingoshi - 25-7-2009 at 20:37

Quote: Originally posted by JohnWW  
That horizontal vortex in what looks like water in a cylindrical glass jar (or similar) looks as if it was produced by the rotation of a magnet at its bottom, caused by a laboratory magnetic stirrer. At least one of the books on Fluid Mechanics - that by White - and one of the Coulson & Richardson volumes, which I have uploaded, and the downloading links for which I have given in the Chemical Engineering books thread in the References section, should explain the fluid mechanics of vortices. I think that Streeter's Fluid Mechanics is also available as an ebook.


See this link for how this vortex was created:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/vtxbottle.htm

Would you please give the links that you've mentioned above? Thank you!

Shingoshi