Sciencemadness Discussion Board - S what do you do with your waste?

S what do you do with your waste?

Jor - 5-6-2009 at 11:38

I have been wondering what the members here do with their chemical waste.

Acids and bases and other chemicals wich are nontoxic, I flush away with alot of water.

I collect all heavy metal waste I produce in a bottle. However, dilute solutions (wich take up a lot of volume, and contain relatively small amounts of metals) of Cr(III), Mn(II), Co and Cu(II) go down the drain, but these solutions always contain very small amounts, and I probably flush no more than 100-200mg of Mn , no more than 500mg of Cu(II) , Co and no more than 2 grams or so Cr(III) per month (Cr(III) does not even have an R-phrase telling that it is toxic to the environment).
For the other metals, I precitipate them from solution.
I know someone from a Dutch forum (a chemist) who is prepared to dispose of my waste in her analytical laboratory in the inorganic waste bottle.

I don't use organics often, but most organics I own are not bad for the environment and I flush them (including acetone, methanol in small amounts, ethanol, ethyl acetate, etc.). The only toxic organics I use, but only very sparingly are DCM, benzene, CCl4, CHCl3 and aniline. However I use these in very small amounts and hardly use them. Aniline and benzene I burn and the chlorinated ones are evaporated in the hood.
The main reason I hardly do synthesis of organics is the waste produced wich is relatively hard to treat.

Oh, and all elements are reduced to relatively harmless forms (the lower oxidation states) before they are disposed. So Cr(VI) to Cr(III), Mn(VII) to Mn(II), halogens to halides, etc.

In this way I think I do fine. Probably common households produce more waste than me, considering many people are ignorant in properly disposing chemicals waste and don't have a problem flushing some leftovers white spirit, paint thinner and other stuff.

So what do you do?

[Edited on 5-6-2009 by Jor]

UnintentionalChaos - 5-6-2009 at 11:52

I have a large jug of nonhalogenated organics (no ether, don't worry) destined for burning. I figure that with enough fire, it all ends up largely harmless. I store inorganic heavy metals waste (lead, nickel, cadmium, etc.) in polyethylene jugs. I don't have too much of these, so what to do with them in the long run is up in the air. I am considering conversion to enormously insoluble sulfides and embedding them in cement. I have flushed large (100g or so) quantities of Cu (II) waste before and am not too worried about it since I buy my copper sulfate as tree root killer; intended to be flushed down the drain in large quantities.

I have only generated small amounts of chloroform waste, which I treated with concentrated NaOH in water. I ignored it for a few months in a sealed polyethylene bottle and came back to an odorless solution of formate and chloride, which I flushed down the drain. I would be a little unsure of what to do with carbon tetrachloride. I suppose I'd just let it evaporate if in small quantities and if in large, attempt to recover it by distillation.

entropy51 - 5-6-2009 at 12:23

This is a tricky subject, mostly because who knows what laws apply to home chemists?
Some environmental regs state that they don't apply to wastes generated in private homes, but it's not clear if this only applies to consumer products (like Rooto?).

There are a few threads on this, one of which is:

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=23...

There are some guidelines out there that are probably good to follow. The US National Academy of Science has a book that gives quite a few disposal methods including some methods to reduce toxicity of some wastes. The PDF is free:

http://books.google.com/books?id=tzcrAAAAYAAJ&printsec=f...

One college has fairly extensive guidelines, including what it's legal to put in the trash or down the drain, but this definitely varies with state, county, country etc.

http://www.mtech.edu/env_health_safety/pdf/chp_appendixf_web...

http://www.mtech.edu/env_health_safety/pdf/chp_appendixg_web...

And Thompson's Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry has a free chapter on chemicals that gives some guidelines on waste:

http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596514921/chapter/ch04.pdf

I hope these are helpful.

UnintentionalChaos - 5-6-2009 at 17:24

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51

This is a tricky subject, mostly because who knows what laws apply to home chemists?

Frankly, I don't really care in regards to waste disposal. This is mainly because there is way too much paperwork and idiocy in government. When drain cleaner is labelled drain cleaner, you can dump solid lye down the drain in pound quantities, but in chem labs, they want you to neutralize everything (even if it's 1M NaOH) completely before it goes down the drain. I call bullshit. I'm going to dispose of waste in ways that I believe are reasonable and safe; ways that I would not mind if I had to live next to myself.

JohnWW - 5-6-2009 at 18:00

As regards hazardous waste, too toxic or otherwise too dangerous (e.g. explosive) to put out for regular rubbish collection, the most cost-effective method of disposal is deep burial in ground (preferably in deep drilled holes, or in disused mines that are going to be sealed off) unlikely to be used for agricultural cropping purposes and unlikely for groundwater to seep to the surface. If it is dangerously radioactive or chemically toxic like plutonium or finely divided uranium, it would have to be encased in concrete or fired clay or glass first. Larger military quantities of dangerous wastes, after such encasement, could be taken by naval vessels to deep ocean trenches, like the Marianas Trench which has the world's greatest depth of water (Challenger Deep, about 7 miles deep), where after sinking into the sea-floor mud the process of subduction at the margins of continental plates would eventually result in deep burial.

[Edited on 6-6-09 by JohnWW]

entropy51 - 6-6-2009 at 10:40

Quote: Originally posted by UnintentionalChaos

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51

This is a tricky subject, mostly because who knows what laws apply to home chemists?

Unintentional,

My post wasn't referring to consumer products from the hardware store and so forth.

I reckon your neighbors (or even EPA) won't mind if you put drain cleaner down your drain.

I was thinking of those of us who use chemicals.

1281371269 - 6-6-2009 at 10:54

'Unintentional,

My post wasn't referring to consumer products from the hardware store and so forth.

I reckon your neighbors (or even EPA) won't mind if you put drain cleaner down your drain.

I was thinking of those of us who use chemicals.

'

I think you miss the idea of the post. The point was being made that Labs run under nonsensical double standards, and drain cleaner was used as an example. Obvisouly, for explosive, radioactive, highy toxic or otherwise dangerous waste, suitable methods must be used - this point was also made 'I'm going to dispose of waste in ways that I believe are reasonable and safe; ways that I would not mind if I had to live next to myself.'

woelen - 6-6-2009 at 12:04

I also try to use common sense with how I handle chemical waste. Stuff like NaOH, H2SO4, HCl and a few other strong acids go down the drain. It is stupid to neutralize this, if other people just dump half a liter of H2SO4 in the sink for drain opening purposes.

Some time ago, I have written a webpage with some guidelines which might be helpful for people, who ask themselves what to do with chemical waste.

http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/rules.html

entropy51 - 6-6-2009 at 13:24

Thanks for that link, Woelen. Good, practical advice!

Are you able to take hazardous materials to a municipal collecting station in the Netherlands? Some U.S. localities make that service available and it makes sense to use it if you can.

In case of a "visit", if they can't think of anything else to arrest you for, they sometimes bring charges of illegal dumping, which can result in severe penalties. So it seems smart to do things the right way, even if we think the rules are nonsensical.

woelen - 7-6-2009 at 06:19

Yes, we can bring chemical waste to a municipal collecting station. This is a good way to get rid of heavy metal waste, or waste of solvents. Everything can be brought to such a place, except radioactive and biologically active material, but the latter are not something the average home chemist has at home. When I bring heavy metal waste, then I say it is waste from photographic processes like toning and contract enhancement. I never had any problems with that.

Jor - 7-6-2009 at 06:27

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

Yes, we can bring chemical waste to a municipal collecting station. This is a good way to get rid of heavy metal waste, or waste of solvents. Everything can be brought to such a place, except radioactive and biologically active material, but the latter are not something the average home chemist has at home. When I bring heavy metal waste, then I say it is waste from photographic processes like toning and contract enhancement. I never had any problems with that.

As what do you bring the organic waste?
I was thinking of using the few empty old thinner bottles we have to bring the waste in. It contained a lot of toluene so was already quite toxic, so I was thinking of putting my organics in there and bringing it away as thinner. They won't open and smell it ...

woelen - 7-6-2009 at 06:44

I don't have so much organic waste that it is worth bringing to a waste processing facility.

The only organic wastes I had in more than milligram quantities till now are:
- dichloromethane, chloroform, tetra (evaporation, outside on a paper tissue)
- nitromethane (idem)
- ligroin (burn outside)
- formic acid (down the drain, this also is present in toilet cleaner, such as "WC eend")
- acetic acid (down the drain)
- acetic anhydride (mix with dilute ammonia and then down the drain)
- acetyl chloride (mix with water and then down the drain)
- methanol, ethanol, isopropyl alcohol (burn outside)
- cyanuric acid (dissolve in dilute NaOH and then down the drain, this also is present in swimming pool stabilizer)

I do the evaporation trick, even if there also is water present. Both the water and the organic solvent are absorbed by the paper tissue. The solvent quickly evaporates, the water remains behind. After evaporation of the organic solvent I throw the wet paper tissue in the trash bin.

Globey - 7-6-2009 at 10:44

Dilution is the Solution to Pollution...................NOT! Some effluent can be flushed down drain with lots of water (legally) depending on the nature of the product, and it's concentration. However, I believe it is illegal to dilute a pollutant (by design), just so one could otherwise flush it.

Never ever flush anything mercury. It is not only illegal, but is just plain wrong. That is probably the single most important thing to remember. Follow the rules, and dispose of properly. Read up on OSHA and EPA rules. Also, there are statues depending on what state you live in.

indigofuzzy - 7-6-2009 at 11:57

Just a quick question, because some of us in old homes have cast iron drain pipes.
Will H2SO4 or NaOH harm the Iron?

Similarly, should I also be cautious about disposing small amounts of Cu(II) and such?

woelen - 7-6-2009 at 22:26

I don't think NaOH will do harm, but H2SO4 certainly does, albeit slowly. Copper(II) or any metal, more noble than iron, also could do harm. A few flushes won't destroy the pipeworks, but especially if pools of strongly acidic liquid or solutions of metal salts can remain in a low part of the piping, then that could do harm. So, if you flush away any acid, then I would dilute and afterwards I would flush with a lot of water as well.

Lambda-Eyde - 7-6-2009 at 22:47

Don't forget that Cu(II) is toxic for aquatic lifeforms! However, small amounts should not be a problem.

setback - 10-6-2009 at 13:50

Quote: Originally posted by Globey

Dilution is the Solution to Pollution...................NOT! Some effluent can be flushed down drain with lots of water (legally) depending on the nature of the product, and it's concentration. However, I believe it is illegal to dilute a pollutant (by design), just so one could otherwise flush it.

Never ever flush anything mercury. It is not only illegal, but is just plain wrong. That is probably the single most important thing to remember. Follow the rules, and dispose of properly. Read up on OSHA and EPA rules. Also, there are statues depending on what state you live in.

Yes, dilution is not an option with mercury and a few other substances. Nature plays a twisted trick, these substances concentrate themselves as you go up the food chain.

chemrox - 10-6-2009 at 15:34

I collect all organic wastes in bottles and dispose of them at the local transfer station as hazardous waste. In the US I am what's called a "conditionally exempt small quantity generator." Dilute acids and bases go down the drain thence to the sewage treatment plant. I throw the Cr VI in with the organic wastes.

Ketone - 16-6-2009 at 17:19

Most stuff go down the drain..
Including weak solutions of acids and base, as well as most organics, esters, alcohols etc, and also inorganic salts.

I feel have no real way of dealing with stuff like copper or lead salts though..
I don't want to throw any real concentrations of them in the drain so usually I just keep them and try to reuse as much as possible.

UnintentionalChaos - 16-6-2009 at 21:13

Quote: Originally posted by Ketone

I feel have no real way of dealing with stuff like copper or lead salts though..
I don't want to throw any real concentrations of them in the drain so usually I just keep them and try to reuse as much as possible.

I have like 100g of recrystallized PbCl2 for this very reason, but suspect I'll never use it for anything.

Ethan-2-ol - 22-6-2009 at 06:58

I'm keeping my heavy-metal salts (do you say so in english?) and their solutions in old spiritus bottles which are made of polyethylene. They are stable, cheap and can be filled with up to one litre of solution. If there will ever be one completely filled, I'll give them to the dangerous-wastes-truck. I always try to recycle solvents, especially such as CHCl3 which are more difficult to get. Solutions of cheap and unproblematic solvents (ethanol, acetone) go down the drain if necessary. Acids and bases are neutralized with the cheapest HCl or NaOH solution from the supermarket and then they go down the drain, too.

leu - 30-8-2009 at 16:51

This thread has a file on the subject which is rather useful:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=5938&a...

The SM search engine still works quite well