I have a rat-problem, _now_. And poison does not come into account, because of the stinking and rotting cadavers in the holes !
The rat(s ?) are under a 2-ton brickwall-waste, and their "home" has at least maybe 4-5 visible entrances. Now I heavily think of what to do ...
because it's also a indoor-problem !
After I had a close look at the problem, it seems not easy: The "residence" of the rats is an old industry-baking-oven, partially destructed.
There are some traces of the rats into the exhaust-gas-tubing: This is an labyrinth inside the brickwall-construction, where the burning-gases flow
through, and thereby distribute heat.
Only that this is too partially destructed, so heating the oven will not yield any normal burning, instead the smoke will escape through some of the
major holes, and the rats may happily sit in a far corner of the thing and wait until it's over ...
Also from the amount of food they have stolen last night from the cat: Maybe it's _big_ rats, or many ...
My most favorable Idea would be to use chlorine, since this disinfects everything too: Make the rats leave and disinfect at once ...
I have some amount of NaClO3, HNO3, little H2SO4 ...
It would have to be several independent throw-away- chlorine-generators, for each of the holes, except 1 or 2 that I can't find ...
Or maybe a steady corona-discharge by a cable into one of the holes ? The O3 wouldn't bind to moisture that much, ... but would it make the rats go
away ?Sauron - 28-10-2008 at 07:06
Our dogs kill any rats foolish enough to enter our compound. Also snakes, cats, birds, chickens, squirrels, giant asian centipedes, etc. The female
dogs are the fastest most aggressive executioners of violators of their territorial imperative.
If you can't keep dogs then glue traps (paper pie plates with glue at center, you bait them with something tasty, rats get stuck and die of exhaustion
trying to escape. I've used them. They work.Klute - 28-10-2008 at 07:26
Most poisons sold nowdays dry up the corpses, so so bad smells or decomposition. I have plenty of mices and rats in my garage, and there is no smell
even if I often find dead dried-up corpses.Sauron - 28-10-2008 at 07:58
There's a powdered mineral substance used in fineing of wines and also in purifying/clarifying pharmaceuticals, damn, I am blanking on the name. It
swells a lot in water. Rodents (also roches) eat it and die as it swells in their bellies. I used to have a 25 lb sack of it, and now I can't think of
the name. A great rat killer.
Bentonite
[Edited on 28-10-2008 by Sauron]gsd - 28-10-2008 at 08:04
Zinc Phosphide is a good rat killer. A small dose enclosed in bread crumb does the trick
gsdSauron - 28-10-2008 at 08:09
Not so sanguine about phosphides (->phosphine, diphosphine) in a dwelling. Better in a warehouse or for killing ruminants in an open field. Bad
practice in human habitation IMO.ScienceSquirrel - 28-10-2008 at 10:18
Why not use rat traps baited with bacon?
Eco friendly, reusable and you can dispose of the bodies elsewhere.
Careful setting them though as the springs are hugely strong.Sauron - 28-10-2008 at 10:39
I have used spring traps but found them no more effective than the glue plate traps. And bacon is a good bait.crazyboy - 28-10-2008 at 14:40
Get a few sticky traps or regular mousetraps if you try chlorine you will gas yourself peanut butter is the best bait.JohnWW - 28-10-2008 at 15:41
The most common rat and mouse poison used in my country are cereal/wax combination pellets containing an attractant and substances derived from
warfarin, e.g. bromocoumarin; but they are grossly overpriced, due to relative lack of competition, and take quite a long time before being fatal.
Both the 4-legged and the 2-legged types of rat are, unfortunately, common in my area, ever since they both got here 200 or so years ago. As well as
getting into houses and eating insecure tasty foods, they also eat macadamia nuts and walnuts, and the kernels of wild cherry trees. Pellets
containing 1080 - sodium fluoroacetate - would be much quicker-acting though still fairly safe, but they have been used only for large-scale aerial
drops, aimed more against the introduced Australian brushtail opossum (New Zealand's number one pest), although they also been used to exterminate
rats and mice on offshore islands intended to be wildlife sanctuaries. However, 1080-, and cyanide and phosphide and white-phosphorus based poison
pellets or pastes are not now available to the general public, except through a licensing scheme.kclo4 - 28-10-2008 at 15:42
Haha yeah... are you suggesting someone has used chlorine to try to kill rats? That sounds like a horrible Idea! hahaFormatik - 28-10-2008 at 15:53
I've seen low concentration phosphide in hardware stores for this reason.sparkgap - 28-10-2008 at 19:17
Vitamin D as I recall has also been used to kill rodents. The problem of course is that, like the coumarin/indanedione rodenticides, it takes some
amount of time before acting on the pests.
Chloralose (the adduct of chloral and glucose) is said to work, too.
sparky (~_~)Saerynide - 28-10-2008 at 19:36
The glue traps work pretty well. We had mice in my last house (I was scared shitless cause it was the first time I ever saw one in a place I lived).
Put a cube of cheese in the middle of the trap and they will get stuck.Sauron - 28-10-2008 at 20:20
Warfarin is indeed a standard rodenticide. It's a blood thinner and the rodents bleed to death internally.
It's also used in medicine as a blood thinner.
There's a Chinese super rat poison that has been banned, it is the product of condensation of sulfamide (from liq SO2 and anhydrous NH3) and
formaldehyde into a really neat cage structure that is a very very potent inhibitor of GABA and thus is a convulsant. It has been banned, but old
stocks were still around in rural China and the product has been used for homicide. Easy to make but potent enough that autointoxication would be a
serious hazard for the chemist. No known antidote!sparkgap - 28-10-2008 at 21:48
@Sauron: That would be TETS (for the Chinese, Dushuqiang). Pretty cage. Damned nasty.
Another banned "super rat poison" that was once made by Bayer was crimidine. The structure looks pretty simple. At least pyridoxine is able to (somewhat) reverse mammalian poisoning.
sparky (~_~)Sauron - 28-10-2008 at 23:21
The Chinese name just translates as "Strong Rat Poison."
I will look up carnidine.prole - 29-10-2008 at 02:19
If you're the only one around for miles with a rat problem, then cats and dogs and especially habitat removal will eliminate them. Habitat removal
has worked wonders in pesky green spaces and rain forests everywhere. I've got two cats and two dogs, and they do a fabulous job of keeping birds and
rodents out of our two acres. Pretty quiet here in the spring. If your cat is an indoor (claws removed) then don't bother waiting for the corpses to
pile up. Of course, if you're in an urban setting, you're probably not the only one with an infestation, and so you will never get totally rid of
them. Population management then will be key, and what numbers you will be able to tolerate. Or you could move.chief - 29-10-2008 at 03:48
I have a male and dangerous cat; but it doesn't seem to want to have too much to do with that problem. I wondered in the past several weeks about it's
different behaviour. Now I know why. Anyhow: Today I'm gonna "smoke them out", hoping they get disturbed enough by the smoke of paper-handkerchiefs to
come out.
The cat had a good thunfish-meal, so it's strong by now, should it have the idea to stand by and watch ... maybe like this it can even get a
rat-exterminating cat.Jor - 29-10-2008 at 05:14
Or if you want to do it really toxic :
Buy rat-poisons like zinc phosphide (conatins approx 2% mass by weight zinc phosphide), thallium sulfate, or strychnine. AFAIK, all are still used,
although the thallium sulfate and strychnine may only be for proffessional use.
Wow that TETS souds really hazardous. 100 times more toxic than KCN. And made from formaldehyde and sulfamide (both really easy available). That's
really scary shit.
[Edited on 29-10-2008 by Jor]sparkgap - 29-10-2008 at 07:28
Quote:
Originally posted by Jor
Wow that TETS souds really hazardous. 100 times more toxic than KCN. And made from formaldehyde and sulfamide (both really easy available). That's
really scary shit.
Indeed, with the relative ease of preparing it, maybe we should be thankful that it's obscure to most people.
@Sauron. I don't have my Merck Index handy at the moment, but there's a ref. there to the patent by Bayer on preparing crimidine.
sparky (~_~)DrP - 29-10-2008 at 07:28
Quote:
Originally posted by chief
I have a male and dangerous cat; but it doesn't seem to want to have too much to do with that problem.............The cat had a good thunfish-meal, so
it's strong by now.
lol - That's probably the problem I reckon - the cat has no need, desire or hunger to lower itself into chasing rats. It has a full belly
of tuna already and probably can't be arsed to chase rats. It just wants to sleep off it's tuna meal.
A hungry cat will chase the rats.Sauron - 29-10-2008 at 07:35
Happy dogs will cheerfully defend their territory anytime, it has nothing to do with appetite for food. It's bloodlust. The bitches are the worst (or
best depending on perspective.) I have 6 large Thai ridgebacks and nothing gets out alive, once in.
They are however wonderful with people.not_important - 29-10-2008 at 07:39
Try bait made of coarse steel wool well covered with suet or nut butter, causes internal hemorrhaging. As with toxic baits, don't use where pets
can get at it.Sauron - 29-10-2008 at 07:50
CAS name(s): 2-Chloro- N,N, 6-trimethyl-4-pyrimi dinamine; 2-chloro-4-(dimethylamino)-6-methylpyrimidine
Drug code(s): W-491
Trade name(s):
Molecular formula: C 7 H 10 ClN 3
Molecular weight:
Percent Composition: C 48.99%, H 5.87%, Cl 20.66%, N
Literature references: Prepd from an appropriate 2,4-dihalopyrimidine and dimethylamine: Westphal, U.S. pat. 2,219,858 (1940 to Winthrop).
Nothing about Bayer.
Oh well.
Another convulsant.unionised - 29-10-2008 at 12:11
I'd be seriously frightened by any synthesis of that stuff from formaldehyde and sulfamide.
The gamma radiation from the nuclear transitions that made the chlorine atoms would be particulalry nasty.zed - 29-10-2008 at 12:17
Chemistry is great. Chemistry is beautiful. But in this case, it is applied physics that will solve the problem.
Bust up that rat rubble and remove it. Or, remove what you can, and seal up the holes with concrete.
Otherwise, wave after wave, of immigrating rats, will colonize.chief - 29-10-2008 at 14:47
The cat did it ! 5Minutes ago there was a screaming, and the cat came along with one rat, layed it down on the floor in front of me ...
Now the cat has it's extra-bonus-fried-chicken, well deserved ...
Maybe until today the cat just was unsure if it's allowed to kill a rat (; today it witnessed me "smoking out" the rats, unsuccesfully ...).
But now the question is: How serious is the hazard of cat getting infected by the rat, then maybe infecting me ?
As far as I understand, a cat has a somewhat different metabolism from rats and mice,which makes cat-bites difficult for humans if they occur.
But since the human has a similar metabolism to a rat (therefrom the usage of rats in medical research), the human again has a different one from the
cat.Only: The cat comes along right after the kill, and I never know, when it happened ...
Where I'm located here is an urban area in Germany, so halfway civilized (hygienically) ... but one never knows ... ??
[Edited on 29-10-2008 by chief]
[Edited on 29-10-2008 by chief]
[Edited on 29-10-2008 by chief]chief - 29-10-2008 at 15:20
Quote:
Originally posted by unionised
I'd be seriously frightened by any synthesis of that stuff from formaldehyde and sulfamide.
The gamma radiation from the nuclear transitions that made the chlorine atoms would be particulalry nasty.
Gamma radiation ? Whats the shortest wavelength that can be emitted by any chemical reaction ? "soft gamma" may as well mean "hard UV" ...jimwig - 29-10-2008 at 16:04
have you thought of using electrocution?
a couple of high voltage AC caps (from microwave ovens) and a death plate and wired food will probably zap most of the dumber ones.
when they get zapped on this idea they jump about three free straight up. very funny
but unless there is enough current thru the circuit they will run away only to play another day. which is to say on a high voltage discharge like this
one they will be DRT! and not in the unreachable vomit producing and unacessible places.
you can vary the scenario for the smart little fucks so that they can't keep up with the executioner
BTW this is very lethal little plan. it will kill you in heartbeat so don't fuck uup and if you do it is not my responsibility.
if you don't have any experience with electrons - especially the high voltage variety better not try this. there willchief - 30-10-2008 at 01:56
Yes, I thought about it, and have experience with it, still thinking of it, since it's sort-of impossible to remove that industrial oven (too strong
walls,like a bunker), wherein they reside.
But there is also the cat ...
One idea was to make it non-lethal, and just lay around a 25 m long wire with a hurt insulation every few cm. Every time a rat gets too close to such
a point of hurt insulation it will get zapped ....
The voltage would come from my standard-HV-source: A hacked small TV (the anode out of the casing, and also a mass-wire; the anode connected through
10 1-MOhm-resistors, in series, within a PVC-tube, which limits the current to (1 mA)/(10 kV) (works with _this_TV undangerously).
Then the capacitance would be the capacitance of the cable to the ground, not more ....
I zapped myself accidentally like this several times, and a rat wouldn't like it too, probably.
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