Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Perchlorate found in Martian Soil by Phoenix

JustMe - 5-8-2008 at 17:11

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/08_05_pr.php

Magpie - 5-8-2008 at 18:22

I toggled this link and read the report. It said that the TEGA analyzer heated a sample of Martian soil and it gave off oxygen. Isn't it stretching things a bit to then report that they've found perchlorate on Mars?

Edit: I reread this more carefully. Apparently a 2nd analyzer did find perchlorate.

Another question I have long had: What is this obsession about finding life somewhere else besides earth? Given the more or less infinite size of the universe isn't it almost a surety that there is life elsewhere?

[Edited on 5-8-2008 by Magpie]

[Edited on 5-8-2008 by Magpie]

kclo4 - 5-8-2008 at 19:53

That is very interesting that they found perchlorate on mars! How would it form?

franklyn - 5-8-2008 at 21:13

It's not unknown , just very unusual.

Rocket fuel from thin air
http://www.guardian.co.uk/spacedocumentary/story/0,2763,3497...
same story _
http://www.reactivereports.com/10/10_4.html
Reference given:
Angew. Chem. Int. Ed., 2000, 39, 2509.

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JohnWW - 6-8-2008 at 01:00

Those warlike Martians must have been playing around with ammonium perchlorate based explosives again!!

Ritter - 6-8-2008 at 04:58

Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie

Another question I have long had: What is this obsession about finding life somewhere else besides earth? Given the more or less infinite size of the universe isn't it almost a surety that there is life elsewhere?

]


It would seem so mathematically. But extraterrestrial life has not yet been detected.

Many religions still cling to the Earth-centric view of the Universe & the literal interpretation of the Biblical Genesis version of life's origin. Detection of life elsewhere would have possibly profound effects on a lot of attitudes & belief systems.

Detection of life or its traces on Mars, especially if it proved similar to our own, wouldn't really prove all that much as I believe that meteorites of Martian origin (results of Martian impacts ejecting huge amounts of their soil back into space) have been found on Earth. One could argue that Earth life originated on Mars & was trasnsported here in such events. Only if life or its traces were found to have radically differrent biochemical and/or genetic mechanisms would you have an outstanding discovery that would open a lot of eyes.

[Edited on 6-8-2008 by Ritter]

ScienceSquirrel - 6-8-2008 at 05:15

The formation and detection of natural perchlorate on Earth;

http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/downloads/Aperchlora...

Magpie - 6-8-2008 at 06:39

Quote:

Many religions still cling to the Earth-centric view of the Universe & the literal interpretation of the Biblical Genesis version of life's origin. Detection of life elsewhere would have possibly profound effects on a lot of attitudes & belief systems.


This is what I have always suspected was at the root of this obsession, but it is almost never explicitly stated as such.

It seems that the media (and even technical journals) can't report on space exploration without bringing up this question of whether the findings could "support life." In a similar fashion it seems that any new scientific finding reported by the mass media has to speculate on whether or not it could hold a cure for cancer.

[Edited on 6-8-2008 by Magpie]

12AX7 - 6-8-2008 at 07:19

Quote:
Originally posted by Magpie
Another question I have long had: What is this obsession about finding life somewhere else besides earth? Given the more or less infinite size of the universe isn't it almost a surety that there is life elsewhere?


Are you referring, offhandedly, to the Drake equation? What a crock, to call that science.

The solar system at any rate is most certainly not infinite, and finding bacteria in our stellar backyard would be quite interesting.

As for perchlorate, I would suppose the thin atmosphere and weak magnetic field allow ample radiation to reach the surface, levels of UV and cosmic rays we don't see here on Earth. Chloride, water (or ice) and pure energy will make all sorts of things.

Tim

chloric1 - 6-8-2008 at 13:52

Perchlorate form on earth in the South American desert. This is the most arid desert. Most perchlorates even potassium perchlorate can be washed away easily so that is why most locals on earth don't have perchlorate.

Fuel for the oxidizer

franklyn - 18-1-2010 at 09:30

So simple even cave bacteria can do it.

In 2001, Microbiologist Marc Strous from the University of Nijmegen in the Netherlands
discovered that hydrazine is produced from the yeast bacteria and open ocean bacteria
anammox ( Brocadia anammoxidans ) a remarkable red-colored bacterium that anaerobically
oxidize ammonia to elemental nitrogen. Although simple , the overall conversion can be
written as : NH4+ + NO2– => N2 + 2H2O
the mechanism by which this is accomplished is complex, involving hydrazine and nitric
oxide as intermediates. Anammox bacteria are able to synthesize hydrazine from ammonia
and hydroxylamine in millimolar quantities then convert hydrazine anaerobically to ammonium
and dinitrogen gas in the final phase. They are the only discovered organism to naturally
produce hydrazine. In order to contain hydrazine, the anammox reaction takes place inside
an internal, membrane-bound compartment or organelle called an anammoxosome.
" It costs [ the bacteria ] a lot of energy, and they get return on their investment by consuming
it again, they are dependent on it, so it can't be removed." Strous is currently developing
waste treatment facilities to process the Ammonia and Nitrite occuring in effluent on which
this organism feeds.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:EidrW0tKjmMJ:news.natio...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1109_051109_...

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:kIOw3aoajOIJ:www.jgi.do...
http://www.jgi.doe.gov/sequencing/why/99199.html

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:ekUF9A-eDcUJ:www.anammox...
http://www.anammox.com/research.html

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