drug tests - bleach vs h202?

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

Putting bleach in urine will create hydrazine. That's not something you want to do by accident.

Now, I don't really encourage people falsifying these tests, for a few reasons. Having never done it myself, I don't really know what I'm talking about. My guess is that the tests also check for non drug compounds like urea (which, as jjay implies, is affected by bleach). If they didn't check for these normal compounds, how could they tell it really was pee, and not water with food dye in it. Could be wrong, though. Maybe this method (non urine liquids, denaturing urine with oxidizer) can be successful.

H202 doesn't smell strongly, as bleach does, so it might pass a casual inspection better. It also doesn't effect organic compounds as badly as hypochlorite, on average. But it would really depend on the *specific* metabolite you were seeking to remove.

Potassium permanganate on the other hand...

[Edited on 5-12-2018 by Vomaturge]

Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge

H202 doesn't smell strongly, as bleach does, so it might pass a casual inspection better. [Edited on 5-12-2018 by Vomaturge]

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

Putting bleach in urine will create hydrazine. That's not something you want to do by accident.

Actually I'm pretty sure that's done by accident on a daily basis
Sure, it'll be the hydrate and it'll be dissolved in the toilet bowl but still...

Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose

I've heard that a lot of people have tried using NaOCl to destroy metabolites in urine. Im guessing it is b/c of the oxidation. I'm wondering if H2O2 (higher concentration) would work similarly?

Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge

Potassium permanganate on the other hand...[Edited on 5-12-2018 by Vomaturge]

Hey something I can assist with. ( finally a chance to give back to the Board) :-)
Firstly no. it will not work to get you to pass a test. it is ALMOST BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to provide a urine sample and pass if you have consumed any of the nominated drugs within the time window.

NOTE: this doesn't include physical attempts ie: false penises and urine substitution, these are caught using other methods.
Sorry - this could be long.

FIRSTLY ME:
Certified drug tester - working in mining industry in Aus.
Unfortunately Seen many $240,000 careers go down in flames by following incorrect information like this.

HLTPAT005 - Collect specimens for drugs of abuse testing
HLT37215 - Certificate III in Pathology Collection Certificate IV in Pathology Collection

Chemically you may be able to disable the test, however you cannot beat the process. :-)
All drug tests are screening tests, they test for threshold levels of metabolites AND ADULTERANTS - Particularly oxidizers, (which can possibly I admit mess with the drug metabolites)

I use and recommend the sure step system - These are self contained budget testing units approx $9us, however they correlate very well with the GC/MS results we get back.

https://www.safetyquip.com.au/pdAWDTDAW01/drug-test-kit-urin...

it tests for 8 metabolites and 4 adulterants
Amphetamines
Cocaine
Methamphetamines
Marijuana
Morphine
Benzodiazepines
Methadone
Buprenorphine
+ 4 x Adulterants:
Temperature
pH
Creatinine
Oxidants/ PCC


Each test takes approximately 15 minutes. and they are under observation the WHOLE TIME. The gathering of the sample is done in an sparsely furnished sterile room, all overclothes are removed before entering, the paperworks starts, i have to explain the chain of custody of the sample, have them select their own testing cup from a minumim of 20 possible options in a box. They confirm both the serial number and expiry date on the pouch - which I note and confirm on the testing paperwork. we discuss items that they may have consumed - Advil, paracetamol, prescription meds, ADHD Meds, etc all of which are noted

This takes a few minutes, i usually tell them a few jokes and put them at ease - They complete their paperwork ( which includes signing serialised stickers which have to be placed over the testing cup and countersigned by me in the case of a "Non Neg result ") and provide it to me which i place in a specific folder open on the desk in their view.

I then look them in the eye and give them my good guy speech.

"OK heres where it gets serious. we are about to start the collection of the sample followed by the screening test. if your feeling unwell or have ANY reason for not proceeding, including fear of what the results might be, Then thats ok. Tell me that you are feeling dizzy and can't take the test and I can stop now - but once you open that pouch you have to complete the test or its " failed to produce sample" . Do you understand that the company will condider this a " Non Negative sample" and are you are happy to proceed?"

They break the seal on the pouch, remove the testing cup and again confirm the serial number, expiry date, and they sign their name on the cup and the testing number (provided by me from the paperwork) AT no point do I ever touch the testing cup.

I ask them to unclip the lid, inspect the cup, close the lid, and confirm that they are happy that it is new and undamaged.

They are then guided into into the toilet cubicle and observed from behind or timed ( side note: it takes approximately 21 seconds for a mammal to empty a full bladder, give or take about 7 seconds. +-30% Mice to elephants lol)

Any variation in time ( or shoulder /arm movements to access hidden pockets) or sounds ( 2 streams, starting stopping dripping etc... yeah I know) is noted - If I think its relevant. perhaps once in 500 tests someone tries the bleach trick. I just let them finish and we complete as normal and i pretend not to smell it. :-)

once they have finished providing the 100 - 150 ml sample (will work with 40ml), they seal the cup and return to the desk with me. I get them to place it on the table in between us on a disposable sheet.

We read off the temperature, from the front of the cup, We confirm the serial number, and I ask them to push and rotate the knob on the side of the cup, which releases the urine into the testing chamber within the cup and exposes the testing strips to the sample.

It takes approx 30 seconds for the control points to go positive, and while we wait i check the adulterant blocks.

PH
OXIDISERS
Specific Gravity
Creatine levels

We then check together the reagent strips for Control line and NON presence of any other markings, 2 lines is a NON NEG.

Side note - you never fail a drug test here - its a screening test to see if the sample needs to go to a Lab for GC/MS

Most guys pass, some are really nervous and check with me constantly.

IF i get a NON NEG, then it gets way more complex, 3 samples tubes taken under vaccuum from the still closed testing cup, LOTS of paperwork, double sealed and signed bags, secured cooler box, escorted by 2 people to the lab.

Mostly i just end up saying - " great mate - your all clear and good to go", they bundle the disposable towels into hazwaste, the sample cup is plastic bagged, and goes in the same bag, I isopropyl the desk - Change gloves. and bring in the next guy.

Lol sorry for the long winded explanation.

NOW if you want to PASS a drug test (which I don't condone as my testee's are generally using heavy equipment on the mines and lives are at risk.) The simplest way is not to take it.

Miss a shift, call in sick, Rebook it, funeral, car accident whatever.. you will get smacked, but you wont be a non neg and your sample will not end up at the lab, don't adulterate it, because it will still end up at the lab, and they will still find the metabolites anyway. Plus that test is WAY more expensive and you'll get a bill from your employer as well as lose your job!

Hey,

Hope that helped.

AN