Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Home Chemistry Society

Home Chemistry Society

Pages: 1 2

CyrusGrey - 9-4-2008 at 15:21

The good think about the wiki template is the ability to keep the previous pages and roll it back if needed.

I added a disclaimer page and a safety page, tell me what you think. Feel free to edit it if you think something should be different.

http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=HomeChemistry:G...
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Safety

[Edited on 9-4-2008 by CyrusGrey]

woelen - 9-4-2008 at 23:18

Quote:

Originally posted by CyrusGrey
EDIT: Also, we put up on the map page that some of us want to meet other chemists, but we don't have any contact info if somone wants to meet us!

There is a page on the Wiki, which is especially meant for this purpose:

http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Special:Listuse...

Every user, who registered, is mentioned on this page (it also is accessible through the main page, bottom left menu: special pages, and then select from the long list which appears the user pages).

Each member can add his/her own description, by simply clicking the name of yourself. You can put anything in there, such as contact info, website information, main interests, etc. After editing, you can protect your page against anonymous editing.

Woelen and Cyrus Grey already added pages, you can recognize these by the color of the name-link.

[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]

woelen - 10-4-2008 at 09:49

I see that already quite some pages are added to the site and I am very happy with that. I myself will add a contribution in the form of descriptions of common laboratory, but not OTC chemicals, with pictures and descriptions.

I would like to add a few suggestions. In the http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Over_The_Counte... page, the country of availability is mentioned in the line for the chemical. I would like to see this removed from the line, but in the page, to which the compound name is linking. In the page, people can add the name of countries and/or states in which they have seen the compound. So, I can add "The Netherlands" and someone else can add the name of the country or state in which (s)he lives.

I think it would be good to have a reagents category, with subcatechories
1) OTC reagents (we already have this)
2) Photography and pottery grade reagents (this extends the list of available chemicals considerably, but most of these chems must be ordered on-line or purchased in specialty shops)
3) Common laboratory reagents (these again are harder to obtain, but in the lab, these are quite common, stuff like NaNO2, KBrO3, ...)
4) Rare reagents (these are the very special ones, such as NbCl5, Na2S2O6, RuCl3, NH4ReO4).

Anyone, having a chemical, which fits in a list, then is invited to write a page about it. If possible, a photo is nice, but not necessary.

I write this, in order to streamline our concerted efforts a little bit.

I also made a minor security patch to the site. Anonymous editing is not possible anymore. Only people with a registered and confirmed user name now can edit pages. Registration is simple, and confirmation also is simple. Confirmation is done by clicking the link, which is in the email, you receive from homechemistry.org.

[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]

chemkid - 10-4-2008 at 11:08

Does anyone else find the HCS page to be very slow? Sciencemadness and most other websites open quickly for me.

MagicJigPipe - 10-4-2008 at 11:38

Just a little bit slower for me but not really so much to where it makes a difference.

CyrusGrey - 10-4-2008 at 11:57

Its acting very slow for me. Though, I am trying to upload new pages. Static pages take about 15 seconds to load and dynamic pages like 'recent changes' often time out.

woelen - 10-4-2008 at 12:57

Hmmm, strange that it is so slow for you. At the moment, it is not really fast for me, but it takes not more than 5 seconds to load a page, actually most pages load within 3 seconds. The server is in Danmark, it might be that traffic from Europe to the USA is slow.

But, let's keep an eye on this. If it remains very slow, then I have to contact my hosting provider. This is the same provider as the one, who hosts all videos of my website. I also wonder, how fast these load in the USA. For me, they load quickly (300+ kByte per second, I have a 3 Mbit/s internet connection).

I, however, switched on file caching on the server. Maybe it does make a difference. All accesses to static page by non-logged in users, who browse the site, do not add to the database load. Only logged in users add to the database load from now on.

[Edited on 10-4-08 by woelen]

MagicJigPipe - 10-4-2008 at 13:43

Like I said, I'm in the US and each page loads within 5 seconds no matter which page it is. That is slower than usual but nothing to complain about.

Okay, for me:

Main page: 2.5s
Recent changes: 4s
Speacial Pages: 4s
Current Events: 7s
Hydrochloric Acid OTC Page: 5s

I'm in the mid-south US (Little Rock, AR) and I wouldn't say I'm having any problems. Also, my ISP is really great and I hardly ever have connection or speed problems. I always get an average D/L speed of at least 300kb/s, often faster. (My house is literally 1000 feet from the "DSL station".)

Woelen, how can I upload an MSDS to the site (PDF) to where people can download it? I have the MSDS on my computer but I can't find a working link for it online.

[Edited on 4-10-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

chemkid - 11-4-2008 at 13:12

I guess it was just that day, because now the site is working just fine. Next question: Does anyone know how to add a bunch of pages to a category at a time with out having to click on and edit each one?

Chemkid

CyrusGrey - 12-4-2008 at 18:00

Since the category itself doesn't contain code specifying what pages are in it, I think its doubtful that you can edit the category page to add pages to it.

I added the pages to the organic or inorganic categories when I cleaned them up a bit. I think it would clutter up the category link bar at the bottom of the page if we added pages to more categories than we already have, though.

Does anyone have any ideas on how we could involve more people on the forums here in editing pages?

12AX7 - 12-4-2008 at 19:46

Quote:

Originally posted by CyrusGrey
Does anyone have any ideas on how we could involve more people on the forums here in editing pages?

*Ears perk up* (so to speak)

I'm plenty fine at writing pages, what style are you using?

(I prefer plain, hand-typed HTML 4.01 Transitional, as one might guess from my own content.

)

Tim

MagicJigPipe - 12-4-2008 at 19:55

Well, it's not HTML but it has some similarities. I used to be pretty "fluent" in HTML and I like the Wiki "language".

Anyway, go see for yourself. Type up some pages and link them to your site if you wish.

http://www.homechemistry.org

[Edited on 4-12-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

CyrusGrey - 12-4-2008 at 20:24

12AX7:
I just posted an announcement with a proposition for contributing members in the Misc. forum.

Saerynide - 12-4-2008 at 23:12

I havent read through every page of this thread yet, but I was wondering, are we sure the OTC page is really a good idea?

I feel like it might just make things even harder for us to acquire in the future (or companies might add more adulturants), as LEOs catch on to the fact that we know (gasp!) how to obtain HCl or I2 or whatever. Seeing that in now, some stores wont sell you 98% H2SO4 drain cleaner anymore...

I realize that all the extraction info is for free everywhere on the net anyways (like here), but maybe concentrating it all and advertising it like that might further promote more kewls to blow themselves up, which wont be good for us

[Edited on 4/13/2008 by Saerynide]

[Edited on 4/13/2008 by Saerynide]

MagicJigPipe - 12-4-2008 at 23:49

That's an age old argument. IMO it is already moot. LEOs are aware of all this stuff. The idea is that since we don't advocate illegal activities the harmful affects should be reduced.

Restriction of these substances is going to happen anyway so we might as well help out our fellow home chemists before they disappear completely.

Like I've been saying. If you have the money, stock up on chemicals NOW. Chemicals first, then glassware. That's why I thought my thread on chemicals to stock up on would be a good way to determine which ones are worthy of monetary investment.

Saerynide - 13-4-2008 at 00:08

Unfortunately, stocking up for me is difficult at the current situation

. As a college student, I have rather limited funds, and even more limitted storage space

(and summer storage costs an arm and a leg, as it is charged by weight and not volume!

)

My room is already loaded with glass - so much that my goldfishes live in my dessicator

My housemate asked me why the sudden influx of glass, and I said I must stock up before the war on drugs wipes out all glass from the face of north america

MagicJigPipe - 13-4-2008 at 04:46

Understandable. Do you work? Would you like to devote some free time to HCS?

Saerynide - 13-4-2008 at 11:06

I made quite some moolah last semester but I spent most of it on travelling during breaks, and now I am researching for credit (must improve gpa), so no more $$$ coming in

I would definately write an article or two, but I must wait til the week is over, since I have midterms this week

CyrusGrey - 13-4-2008 at 20:44

With the possibility of a mixture of more advanced chemistry being mixed with the beginner chemistry, I would propose that this is a good time to impliment something like Woelen suggested earlier in the thread: a rating system for the difficult of an experiment.

Here is what I had in mind:

reagents:
1 jar - chemicals that can be picked up locally
2 jars - chemicals that are easy to make or extract
3 jars - chemicals that are hard to make or extract or must be ordered
4 jars - rare chemicals

technique:
1 goggle - a good experiment for the absolute beginner
2 goggles - requires basic lab experience / basic concept understanding
3 goggles - requires intermediate lab experience or understanding of more difficult concepts
4 goggles - this lab would be dangerous without a great deal of lab experience

equipment:
1 flask - can be done with jars and cups and the things you find in most kitchens
2 flasks - requires basic flasks, stoppers, test tubes
3 flasks - requires more advanced things like distillation setups or ground glass connections
4 flasks - requires advanced equipment like furnaces, catylist tubes etc.

These would go in several places: all of the detailed articles, any experiment pages we put up in the future, pages with extractions from OTC products, and pages on the synthesis of reagents.

Unfortunatly I have horrible skills with computer based art programs and somewhat poor art skills in general, so all of my attempts at little jars and googles were not recognizable as what they were intended to be. So unless somone with better art skills would make us something better, I have made yellow, blue and red stars. Tell me what you think.

Stars.JPG - 3kB

12AX7 - 13-4-2008 at 21:38

Quote:

Originally posted by CyrusGrey
Tell me what you think.

Well obviously(?), you don't save as .JPG. I can see the quantization error from here! You use .GIF or .PNG for line drawings, at a noticable size savings to boot: your 2.6k JPG would be more like 500 bytes, if that. No, not a large savings on this image, but a multistep reaction diagram from ChemDraw that takes up the better part of a screen might weigh in at 10kB GIF, >20kB (with ugly artifacts) as JPG. Still not much, but over thousands of images, it adds up -- plus, there are still 56k dial-up users out there!

HTH, in general. This certainly has nothing to do with your stars themselves, which look quite starry.

Edit: Registered myself on the Wiki. Going through pages, it looks like a lot of photographs are terrible: for instance, the hypochlorite Pool Shock product is in complete darkness. As on Wikipedia, a more detailed image of the material itself might be provided. For instance, I can't tell (from the same picture) what shape the product is, beyond a generally granular white solid. I recall my calcium hypochlorite is granular, kind of flattened.

I'm fine at taking photographs, but I don't really have a good place to take them. The plywood table is kind of tacky (although I suppose one could argue it illustrates the "hominess" of the website!).

It will take a keen eye to minimize spelling and grammar mistakes. Forgive the finger-pointing, but Woelen seems to use an excess of commas for instance.

Ok, I'm done being a bitch this evening...

Tim

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by 12AX7]

ScienceGeek - 13-4-2008 at 22:32

I also find it very important to use good, accurate and in focus images on HC.org. Can't you just place out some regular paper or something and make yourself a little studio? It looks nice and sterile and like a lab...

CyrusGrey: I like your stars (they are indeed starry), but: I would rather like the colors (top to bottom): green, yellow and red.

[Edited on 14-4-2008 by ScienceGeek]

MagicJigPipe - 13-4-2008 at 23:02

Is there a problem with my pictures? I really don't put anything in my pictures except for the product and possibly a sample. Forget about backgrounds. I cut all of that stuff out and just leave the product.

I can fix grammatical errors. There are some but it won't be that hard. I suppose I will start on that tomorrow.

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

woelen - 14-4-2008 at 03:03

If someone is willing to correct my grammatical error, then that would be very nice. English is not my mother's tongue, so if someone finds errors, please correct them.

I am quite fine at making pictures, and I plan to upload pictures of many reagents, some of them I donate from my website, others will be new pictures. It indeed is VERY important to have in-focus images, and have good lighting conditions. Too dark images are not good, very yellow images (made under tungsten light conditions) also are not good. Either use a filter correction (most digcams have an option for color correction) or work in daylight.
I actually like the idea of the pictures, uploaded by Cyrus Grey. They show the container, besides the chemical. This is a good thing for OTC chemicals. Sadly, doing such a thing for EU-based countries hardly is worth the effort. There are such great differences in the EU, e.g. in the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium, which are neighbouring countries, the containers look completely different, and there also is quite a big difference in what is OTC in one country and the other.

For making pictures from reagents, try to use an as small as possible aperture opening on your camera. This makes the depth of sharpness area larger. If this results in the need for long exposure times (and hence the problem of getting motion blur due to shaky hands) then you need to use a stand for your camera. Many of the pictures on my website are made with exposure times well over 0.1 second, but they still look sharp. So, it is posisble.

CyrusGrey - 14-4-2008 at 03:55

Sorry my pictures are so bad. I was doing this quickly, as to get something on the website as an incentive for people to add more. Secondly I do not have a digital camera of my own, I was left one with an almost dead battery and no charger so no flash. They are in JPG because thats what this camera saves in, I'll remember to convert them in the future.

woelen - 14-4-2008 at 05:00

Your pictures are not bad, actually, I am quite happy with your efforts. Most important is that they show the container, so that people can recognize these when they go out shopping.

The .jpg image format also is quite well for this purpose, and I don't see why this should be different. Actually, virtually all of the images on my website are JPG images. What can be done, however, with JPG is a lot of tuning. You can have the images compressed, without sacrificing too much of image quality.

Btw, the star-system seems good to me. If getting stars on the site is difficult, then plain text also is OK. With each experiment you can add a few lines like this:

- reagents: ++++
- procedure : ++
- equipment: +++

Here, ++++ means most advanced level, +++ is quite advanced, ++ is basic, + is OTC

E.g. for glassware:
+: Jars, beakers from kitchen
++: Basic glass ware like test tubes, erlenmeyers, and some simple rubber tubing (e.g. for aquariums) and stoppers
+++: Distillation setup, more complicated coolers, refluxers, etc.
++++: Complex setups with multiple receivers, all kinds of custommade tubing, metal-soldered tubing. An example of this is the SO3-page of len1.

CyrusGrey - 14-4-2008 at 11:29

I put the star system in place. I shrunk down the stars to 1/4 their original size, which I think looks better. Thanks to Woelen, we have more than one thing to rate.

Sorry len1, your article has been rated R for sexy chemicals.

[Edited on 14-4-2008 by CyrusGrey]

MagicJigPipe - 14-4-2008 at 17:22

I liked the idea of the flasks for equipment and goggles for safety because it is easier to infer what it means. I had to use the tooltip to see what the stars meant. I suppose that's not a big deal but I think it would look cool and be easier to read.

Great idea, though, Cyrus.

Also, thanks everyone for your continued contributions! I am so proud at how the site is coming along!

EDIT
Also, I think that every time a reagent or formula is mentioned it should be linked to the appropriate page. Well, maybe not every time. What does everyone think?

[Edited on 4-14-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

MagicJigPipe - 18-4-2008 at 15:06

Hey guys, when editing a page on the HCS site, please type a brief synapsis on what changes were made in order to make it easier to locate specific changes and make revisions, corrections or reverts later on.

Thanks!

12AX7 - 19-4-2008 at 00:25

Isn't there a change history?

woelen - 19-4-2008 at 02:20

Yes, click "recent changes", at the left menu of the main page. It shows all last changes. Default is showing 50 changes, but you can make this more, or less.

vulture - 19-4-2008 at 02:34

If you want to take nice freestanding pictures of objects, get yourself a large cardboard box. Turn it 90 degrees on a table so the opening points towards the walls and not up. Now proceed to suspend a white paper from the front bottom to the back "ceiling". Make sure it's long enough so you can put something on it without it sliding off. Make one or two side windows and put some thin opaque plastic or paper in them. This is where you will let your light source shine through from the outside. Now cover the rest of the interior walls with white paper and you're set to take pretty pictures.

MagicJigPipe - 19-4-2008 at 03:15

"Isn't there a change history? "

That was the whole point of my request. That way you don't have to blindly click through all of the page histories.

12AX7 - 19-4-2008 at 07:41

I recall seeing captions on said change history, at least on the 'real' one [Wikipedia]. That would be enough, no?

Tim

chemkid - 19-4-2008 at 08:58

I think we should change our reagent lists format. Its just going to be a pain to rewrite the OTC sources, preparation of etc. for each reagent at the corresponding list. Why don't we make the lists simply a list of links to the reagent page. The short descriptions after each link are just going to be a pain because we'll have to type everything twice. I have made one page of the proposed format:
http://www.homechemistry.org/index.php?title=Reagent_Synthes...

Chemkid

CyrusGrey - 19-4-2008 at 09:12

When people are browsing through the list though, it doesn't tell them what reagents are needed for the synthesis. Also, when a more in depth synthesis or multiple syntheses are present, we dont want to clutter up the reagent page with a 2+ page long synthesis. Also, it is not very difficult to copy and paste short lines like that (That do not require a seperate page) when viewing the page source.

As for the issue of page histories, I'm trying to get myself in the habit of using the text box at the bottom for a brief summary per Magic's request.

chemkid - 19-4-2008 at 09:15

Perhaps it would be more useful to list the reagents needed next to the reagent synthesized. Also if we don't want to clutter the reagent page where should we put long synthesises?

[Edited on 19-4-2008 by chemkid]

[Edited on 19-4-2008 by chemkid]

CyrusGrey - 19-4-2008 at 09:20

Which was what I was doing, except I was adding a 1 or 2 line summary of the proccess also. For the syntheses we had up though, we only had 1 or 2 lines. To give an example of a longer one:

[[Link to len1's article]]: [[Sulfur trioxide]] can be synthesized by heating [[Sodium hydrogen sulfate]] at high temperature, though this is difficult and requires specialized equipment.

I just didn't get around to posting it yet.

EDIT: My post doesn't make as much sense after your edits which you did while I was posting. The syntheses were going to be in the category:homemade reagents, while the reagents that were synthesized were going to be in the subcategory synthesized reagents.

P.S. we might try using the Talk: pages next time.

[Edited on 19-4-2008 by CyrusGrey]

MagicJigPipe - 19-4-2008 at 11:47

12AX7, look.

(cur) (last) 04:00, 19 April 2008 Cyrus Grey (Talk | contribs) (2,528 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 03:40, 19 April 2008 Cyrus Grey (Talk | contribs) (2,282 bytes) (Edits after discussion with magic) (undo)
(cur) (last) 22:59, 18 April 2008 MagicJigPipe (Talk | contribs) (1,968 bytes) (Grammatical ans structure changes. Made first letters of chemicals lower case as chemical names aren't proper nouns. Let me know what you think!) (undo)
(cur) (last) 04:22, 12 April 2008 Cyrus Grey (Talk | contribs) (1,208 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 19:33, 11 April 2008 Chemkid (Talk | contribs) (704 bytes) (→Distilled vinegar) (undo)
(cur) (last) 05:11, 11 April 2008 MagicJigPipe (Talk | contribs) m (636 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 05:10, 11 April 2008 MagicJigPipe (Talk | contribs) m (636 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 05:08, 11 April 2008 MagicJigPipe (Talk | contribs) (630 bytes) (added molecular structure) (undo)
(cur) (last) 20:41, 10 April 2008 Cyrus Grey (Talk | contribs) (548 bytes) (New page: Category:OTC Reagents Category:Reagents Acetic acid is most commonly found as a solution in water. It has the formula CH<sub>3</sub>COOH. More rarely it is seen as a pure liquid or...)

Only information that is automatically added is the date and time. Other information must be put in by the editor. So, the "captions" are definitely not enough.

Same thing with "real" Wikipedia.

(cur) (last) 01:00, 17 April 2008 Tombstone (Talk | contribs) m (3,346 bytes) (Undid revision 206143002 by Meople (talk)) (undo)
(cur) (last) 00:48, 17 April 2008 Meople (Talk | contribs) (3,380 bytes) (i have elaborated on a couple sentences and erased unwanted data.) (undo)
(cur) (last) 07:18, 14 April 2008 76.102.94.199 (Talk) (3,346 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 07:10, 14 April 2008 76.102.94.199 (Talk) (2,812 bytes) (undo)
(cur) (last) 23:25, 13 April 2008 68.56.89.79 (Talk) (2,809 bytes) (→Incorrect Usage) (undo)
(cur) (last) 20:12, 12 April 2008 Macys123 (Talk | contribs) m (3,067 bytes) (Reverted edits by 71.126.241.117 (talk) to last version by Dewrad) (undo)

Quote:

P.S. we might try using the Talk: pages next time.

I agree. That should be useful and would reduce the amount of "clutter" on this thread.

[Edited on 4-19-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

woelen - 19-4-2008 at 15:12

I created a special discussion board, associated to the Home Chemistry Society:

http://www.homechemistry.org/forum/index.php

It is a kind of forum, but it is NOT intended for general chemistry discussion (for that purpose we have sciencemadness

). This forum, however, allows us to discuss all kinds of things and it provides a platform for communication between HCS-members.

Unfortunately, I am not able to put a chat system on the website (I have no permision to setup my own executable network services, required for that), but a forum solution should be fine also. Advantage of a forum solution is that all communication remains available, so that we have a log of all discussed things.

The website is not single-signon. So, you also have to register at the forum. Please use the same nickname in the forum as in the wiki. The forum only is open to registered members, guests cannot do anything in the forum, not even read it.

Right now I am the only member (woelen). I am a global moderator on that new forum. I would like to add a few other members as global moderator, so that this task is not for me alone, and so that some form of democracy is created as well. I'll make a few of the first time members global moderator as well, and from that point on, we can further extend the community of trusted members.

The forum allows creation of new groups. We could create a group 'core members' and have these all the power of a global moderator, including the power to add more member to the group of 'core members', but that can be discussed on the new forum

MagicJigPipe - 19-4-2008 at 18:14

Excellent Woelen!

I set up a vote so we can go ahead and get started with the democratic process! It's a small, semi-trivial issue but I encourage all members to vote.

Please, read the example before voting!

http://www.homechemistry.org/forum/index.php?topic=3.msg5#ms...

woelen - 20-4-2008 at 09:53

I did the vote, and I propose we go on with discussing HCS-related things on the HCS-forum.

Phosphor-ing - 21-4-2008 at 08:06

I agree with woelen. This topic has no purpose anymore.

@magicjigpipe that vote is a landslide!

Pulverulescent - 21-4-2008 at 09:17

Quote:

Originally posted by woelen
guests cannot even read it.

Will that not make it look a bit elitist?

P

woelen - 21-4-2008 at 23:29

This forum is not intended to be a forum like sciencemadness, where all kinds of chemistry things are discussed. The forum only is intended to be used as a communication platform for people who (intend to) contribute to the HCS in whatever way. In this we discuss things like the grammar of texts in the HCS website, what kinds of experiments can be added, technical issues in the wiki, etc. Also things about the organisation of the HCS can be discussed over here. The HCS wiki page is the public front end of the organisation, the forum is meant for internal discussion between members and is not interesting for the occasional visitor of the website, who only brows the site but has no active participation.

And if you really are interested, registration can be done with a few mouse clicks and filling in a simple form.

[Edited on 22-4-08 by woelen]

not_important - 22-4-2008 at 02:15

Quote:

Originally posted by woelen
And if you really are interested, registration can be done with a few mouse clicks and filling in a simple form.

But it means yet another ID & PW to track, and another e-mail address to set up, which is why I've not bothered joining in. And yes, those all are needed. I've had several e-mail accounts get ruined when the "never give out e-mail" site gave out e-mails, in many cases because there was a change in the site owners. In several cases the site was compromised through one attack or another and the e-mail information ended up on spam lists. I really don't need any more body parts enlargement ads or messages from nice shy girls who want to show me their nude photos, it's easiest to just scratch the e-mail for that site and not have to do it for a bunch of other sites.

MagicJigPipe - 22-4-2008 at 03:08

I mean, if you're not willing to register and/or post on the board then what's the big deal? Most of the time you can't post on boards without registering. If you don't wish to participate I assure you the board will be of little interest.

You have to sign up for the Wiki page, as well.

How would you be a member of the organization without signing up for something? Just because you don't want to risk the possibility of a little spam? I mean, how often do websites get taken over by people who distribute your information? Then, how often can you not just send the spam to your junk mail folder?

No offense but it seems like kind of a flimsy excuse.

So.... Be cool, sign up. Free hat!

[Edited on 4-22-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

not_important - 22-4-2008 at 06:55

From the Wiki - Wikipedia:

Quote:

You are not currently logged in. Editing this way will cause your IP address to be recorded publicly in this page's edit history. If you create an account, you can conceal your IP address and be provided with many other benefits.

Meaning for most pages you need not register, although I did when they started having problems but by then they were a proven establishment.

I've lost over 15 e-mail addresses to web sites that were known to have been compromised, about half that to sites that changed or ignored their privacy policies that I could prove had done so; may have been more from before I started using one e-mail ID per site so I could check.

Spam filters aren't that effective, and have a tendency to treat actual mailings from list-serve or web-board software as spam if you tighten them up too much.
Because of this for the first few occurrences I had to go through all the other places that also used that e-mail and switch them over to a new address, annoying when you have to do that for 20 or 30 sites.

Simple registration isn't a problem, it's the e-mail requirement now that I'm not running my own domain.

12AX7 - 22-4-2008 at 07:51

How spam-snobby could you possibly be? I do almost everything through my primary e-mail account, which gets under ten spams a day. I delete them and go on with my life! Seems to me if you have a problem with filters deleting listserv messages, and you've already got thirty accounts, why not route them to a thirty-first?

Sigh...why bother, people who do illogical things aren't usually worth trying to persuade with logic. I digress. What was this thread about anyway, let's go back to talking about that.

Tim

MagicJigPipe - 22-4-2008 at 08:27

Well, I suppose I just don't see what the big deal is. I have 3 email accounts and I sign up for LOTS of stuff. I barely get 2-3 pieces of junk mail a day which are routed into the junk mail folder. I periodically check the junk mail folder and only a handful of times have I ever had a legitimate e-mail end up in there.

I think the key is (just like with junk snail mail) to just be smart about what you sign up for. Most places have a box to uncheck so you don't receive a bunch of crap mail. The only junk mail I EVER get is something that I accidently signed up for or when I bought something. Buying stuff seems to cause the majority of junk mail.

I suppose you are just picky about having junk mail come to your e-mail address. I haven't had 30 e-mail addresses in my entire life! How can you possibly sign up for ANYTHING online without using your e-mail? I can't recall one thing that didn't require it.

Have you seen the amount of vandalism and sabotage that must be reversed on an hourly basis at Wikipedia? That's why we don't want "fly-by-nighters" on the site.

I just don't consider the off chance that homechemistry.org gets taken over by spammers reason enough to not sign up (if it does, just block the spammers). How do you get anything done online if you are that paranoid of spam?

P.S. I don't even have the spam filters on "tight" security and I still don't get enough junk mail for it to interfere significantly (and I sign up for more stuff than the average person, I'm sure). It's just not a big deal to me. That's why I don't understand your situation.

Perhaps you are just unlucky.

Like I said, no offense, I just don't understand.

Shall we move on?

[Edited on 4-22-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

-jeffB - 22-4-2008 at 09:07

If you're seeing 10 or fewer spams per day, you're very, very lucky. I used a one-off address when I signed up for Yahoo Groups, and by the time I pulled the plug on that address, it ALONE was getting more than 10 spams per day.

When I sign up for a new discussion board or Wiki, you'd better believe I use a one-off address. Most, like Sciencemadness, don't cause problems -- I haven't yet received any unsolicited email on this address. But every once in a while, there's one like the forum I joined at U-Mich, where my signup address was getting pummeled with spam within a few hours of my first post. It turned out they'd attached my unobscured email address to my post. Any address that gets posted on the Web will sooner or later be harvested for spam lists.

Thanks to my habit of using unique addresses each time I register with a merchant or online site, I learned that my online brokerage was leaking personal information long before they owned up to it. I've seen that most online merchants protect their address lists carefully, but one or two have apparently been caught by viruses or Trojans that harvest address books.

Unfortunately, I wasn't so careful about giving out addresses to friends and family, and I sometimes forget to change the "Reply-to" and "From" addresses when I send out email correspondence. As a result, my "real" email has leaked, and I now get tens of spams a day directed to it. I can change it, but that will entail more disruption than I'd like.

MagicJigPipe - 22-4-2008 at 10:10

Wow, I don't know what you are doing wrong but my biggest problem is FWDs (chain letters; more annoying than spam, IMO) from friends and family and companies that I have ordered from asking me to buy again.

I've had my first e-mail address (my primary, the one I use to sign up for everything) for 8 years and it receives less spam than the other two. The only thing I do is go through and add spammers to my block list and remove myself from their mailing lists every few months or so. Today, so far, I have received one e-mail and it was from something I signed up for on purpose.

I feel sorry for you. It must get really annoying to have to use a different e-mail address for each sign-up. Perhaps there is something else you could do that is easier (obviously, I must be doing something right).

Maybe you guys should stop signing up at all those porn sites! Just kidding... Shall we get back on topic?

[Edited on 4-22-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

Window Dressing

franklyn - 8-5-2008 at 01:59

There is much to be said for simplicity such as low band width requirement or
else hotlinking to images hosted elsewhere. Classical art and old woodcuts
remain the standard of excellence. It all depends on wether you want to be
portrayed as Philosopher Kings _

School of Athens 1506 Raffaello Sanzio - click inage for full size -

or plodding twerps

Alchemist 1558 Pieter Breughel - click inage for large size -

a workshop _

Excellent old woodcut prints from the 1556 tome De Re Metallica by Agricola
alias Georg Brauer , on mine engineering , ore processing and metalurgical refinement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Agricola
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Re_Metallica
FTP download from archive,org , .djvu ~ 40 MB
ftp://ia340937.us.archive.org/0/items/georgiusagricola00agri...

A search of chemistry google images yields banal artwork _
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=chemist&btnG...
There are some copywrited still life themes at this site _
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/Home/Science/Physics-and-Ch...

[color=darkolivegreen]There are many comparable images posted in Sciencemadness *[/color]

Alchemist google images seemingly have a better selection _
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Alchemist&bt...
especially this site here _
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/alchemy_laboratories_paintings...

Special effects can set an image in a different medium _

Marble _

Stone Lithograph relief _

Bronze _

Censorship - Detritus
Trial by Fire c.1495 Pedro Berruguete.jpg - click inage for full size -

Energetics Chemistry

It all depends on your view_
Hand With Reflecting Globe 1935 Maurits Cornelis Escher

Finally here's a Gif I cobbled indicating a bright idea.

Smiley Bulb Beaker.gif - 21kB

MagicJigPipe - 8-5-2008 at 03:40

What does this have to do with HCS? Are you suggesting we use these pictures on the site? And what does the trial by fire thing have to do with anything?

You're not that strange, rabidly religious fellow from previous posts, are you? My apologies if I am thinking of someone else.

franklyn - 8-5-2008 at 07:46

@ MagicJigPipe

Just window dressing, it all depends on your view.
I think it's in keeping with what woelen stated.
He manages his own site which is a good model.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10166&...

The HCS site appearance seems a bit kiddy to me as is.
This post is the best way to suggest changes or additions.
I have made contributions to other wiki's though seldom
placed where the moderator thinks appropriate.

.

MagicJigPipe - 8-5-2008 at 08:20

Oh, okay. Well, thanks for the pretty pictures. But I certainly wouldn't let my kids do some some of the things on that site!

[Edited on 5-8-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

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