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Jebby - 14-5-2021 at 09:14

Anyone know where I could find detailed information on the properties of ETN like at what temperature it DDT’s? I know where to look to find the boiling and melting points.
I’m just trying to figure out how I could get ETN to detonate reliably by thermal decomposition without wasting a lot of it.

Nvm I Utfse

[Edited on 14-5-2021 by Jebby]

[Edited on 14-5-2021 by Jebby]

MineMan - 16-5-2021 at 13:26

Quote: Originally posted by Jebby  
Anyone know where I could find detailed information on the properties of ETN like at what temperature it DDT’s? I know where to look to find the boiling and melting points.
I’m just trying to figure out how I could get ETN to detonate reliably by thermal decomposition without wasting a lot of it.

Nvm I Utfse

[Edited on 14-5-2021 by Jebby]

[Edited on 14-5-2021 by Jebby]


It can’t just be a temperature. I would look into catayliztz

ManyInterests - 16-5-2021 at 20:50

(I was going to start a thread, but I figured it might be more appropriate to post my questions here).

So I have numerous questions regarding making nitrates and energetic materials. I just want to make very small batches of this stuff just as a proof of concept and for fun. I am not experienced in making energetics except for black gunpowder and nitrocellulose, both of which I’ve made a few times with great success (but no more than 10 grams of powder and 2 cotton balls at a time), and I wanted to try my hand at making small quantities of the following: RDX, ETN, Picric acid, Ammonium Picrate, Nickel Hydrazine Nitrate, and (possibly) DDNP. I wanted to try to make PETN, but getting some of the chemicals is a bigger headache than I care to go through.
I looked through the forums and some of the threads regarding many of these materials, and I still have quite a few questions to ask about these. Primarily about safety (I believe in safety first, second, and third. Results last and I will sacrifice an optimal yield for added safety), and secondly about making sure I have everything setup to make them successfully. I figured I’d make a big question dump in one go to get all the info I need. Chemistry is something I got into recently and most of the stuff I have been doing is fairly safe (extracting chemicals from random store products, crystalizations and recrystalizations, electrolysis, concentrating chemicals, etc, etc).

1: Sensitivity: I once thought about making TATP, but after seeing several videos on how insanely sensitive it is I decided to wisely heed the warning you had on the wiki and steer as clear of all peroxide-based energetics. I value my fingers far too much to even dream of making that stuff.
But that being said, I do have other questions concerning sensitivity. I know RDX is considered super stable, so I am not worried about that. But what about ETN? ETN, as I’ve read, is three times more sensitive than PETN. What does that mean exactly? Just how sensitive are we talking about here?
I mean if I wanted to make blasting cap and I put 1 gram or 0.75 grams as a booster and gently pressed it with a wooden dowel, would there be any chance of detonation? What about fire in that regard? Can someone please tell me what ‘three times more sensitive’ means exactly.
Also I’ve seen some people make blasting caps and use small bits of cotton as a spacer between the booster, the primary, and the ignition mixture. If I wanted to make a blasting cap using ETN, NHN, and black powder, and if I decided to use nitrocellulose in place of the regular cotton, would that possibly cause problems? I’m just asking because I thought of doing that and I don’t want to end up doing something bad. (I figure the nitrocellulose would give the blasting cap a bigger kick).

Regarding Picric acid. I know it should be kept stored in a wet state (as normally all explosives when not in use) but the wiki makes it look like it is a lot more dangerous than others. Is ammonium picrate more or less stable?

Finally, about DDNP, I saw on the thread about it that its impact sensitivity is 1,5 Nm (150g from 1 meter or 1,5 kg from 10 cm). That means dropping a 1.5 kilo weight from 10 cm will cause it to detonate? How dangerous is softly pressing it into a cap is? Redundant I know, but I really need to ask.

2: Nickel Nitrate:
I’ve read that nickel nitrate can be made by mixing nickel oxide in nitric acid. Would nickel metal suffice? I don’t have nickel oxide or nickel chloride, but I do have a good supply of 99.6% pure nickel strips. I’ve seen videos where some guys let the metal dissolve in a 65-68% HNO3 solution. Would 90+% fuming HNO3 also produce a similar result? The results would have a green solution. According to the thread on NHN, the formula states to mix both the hydrazine sulfate and nickel nitrate in 95% ethanol before mixing. If the nickel nitrate is already in a liquid state, would addition of ethanol be necessary at that point?
Also how much nickel metal to acid is needed for an optimal result? How important is the addition of 30% hydrogen peroxide is to the solution (I’ve seen videos were some use it and others don’t).

3: Fenton’s reagent.

Yes I know it isn’t an energetic, but I will need it to dispose of the picric acid/ammonium picrate I most likely will be making, but the exact proportion of hydrogen peroxide to iron chloride is unclear to me. Can someone just give me a quick ratio?

4: Sulfuric acid, diluting and measuring.
When diluting sulfuric acid. If I diluted drain cleaner grade (93% estimated, with inhibitors) would this cause any difference in the reactions I need in projects (Hydrazine sulfate for example). Or would it have to start off as reagent grade? Would it make much of a difference?
I would measure the mass/volume of my acid to find out the percentage, but sadly my scale doesn’t go beyond 0.01 grams. What other way is there for testing the percentage without any special equipment?

I think these are all the questions I have for now.

Oxy - 17-5-2021 at 00:51

I would not use drain cleaner for any reaction without purification. Inhibitors can affect the reactions in unpredictable ways

Sulaiman - 17-5-2021 at 06:12

If a fountain type firework uses a mixture of potassium nitrate with sulphur and iron powders,
in a humid environment, is it likely or possible that people downwind may smell hydrogen sulphide?

(considering testing... just curious)

ManyInterests - 17-5-2021 at 13:20

Quote: Originally posted by Oxy  
I would not use drain cleaner for any reaction without purification. Inhibitors can affect the reactions in unpredictable ways


I used drain cleaner to make my nitrocellulose and it worked quite well. I made 3 small batches... I discovered that if you undernitrate the cotton balls they become LESS flammable than normal cotton balls!

No joke. When I made my first attempt. I looked at the small container with the nitrating mixture and I figured 'I can fit 4 balls in there' and I put four cotton balls instead of two. What happened is that the end result was practically flame resistant than flammable. My 2nd attempt had 3 balls, and they burned well, but not as fast as you would expect. My 3rd and latest attempt (little more KNO3 than the formula called for) with 36 hours of nitration instead of my usual 24 resulted in a super fast burning nitrocellulose.

I used drain cleaner grade acid for all of those attempts, as I didn't have the apparatus for purifying sulfuric acid just yet. Right now I'm concentrating some store 3% hydrogen peroxide to 30+%. It takes forever and I am doubtlessly losing due to using the evaporation method, but it works for my purposes and for the amounts I need.

Jebby - 30-5-2021 at 12:40

Anyone know if it would be possible to set off 5 to 10g of melt cast etn with little confinement with a 75/25 1g det cap that has .25g of melt cast etn with .25 of powdered etn on top. I’m just wondering if anyone has an idea if it would work or not because I don’t really want to waste etn

MineMan - 31-5-2021 at 00:37

Jebbayyyyy

Many are going to be reluctant to answer because this forum is built off of experimenting.

When it comes to explosives. Follow your gut even if it does not make sense.

B(a)P - 31-5-2021 at 01:12

Quote: Originally posted by Jebby  
Anyone know if it would be possible to set off 5 to 10g of melt cast etn with little confinement with a 75/25 1g det cap that has .25g of melt cast etn with .25 of powdered etn on top. I’m just wondering if anyone has an idea if it would work or not because I don’t really want to waste etn


Some more info would be useful. Is you det cap proven to be reliable? Are you sure that the melt cast etn component of your cap is detonating? What makes up the other 0.5 g of your cap? There are some good threads on SM on this very subject, I would post the links but I have terrible reception and am using a phone.

math - 2-6-2021 at 18:22

What are some ideal energetic materials, in terms of being low in manufacturing costs, ease of synthesis, good thermodynamic properties and having low shock and friction sensibility? Thanks

[Edited on 3-6-2021 by math]

MineMan - 3-6-2021 at 05:52

Quote: Originally posted by math  
What are some ideal energetic materials, in terms of being low in manufacturing costs, ease of synthesis, good thermodynamic properties and having low shock and friction sensibility? Thanks

[Edited on 3-6-2021 by math]


DAUN

kweiny - 7-6-2021 at 23:48

Quote: Originally posted by math  
What are some ideal energetic materials, in terms of being low in manufacturing costs, ease of synthesis, good thermodynamic properties and having low shock and friction sensibility? Thanks

[Edited on 3-6-2021 by math]


Well in my experience there is no "ideal" energetic material. They all have thier pro's and con's

Take TATP as an example: Its easy to synthesize but stupidly sensitive.
RDX is another example: relatively easy to make (if you got the precursors) but quite hard to detonate. You cant just stick a fuse in it.

For my needs i find that ETN will probably do the job. I can get everything that is needed to synthesize it quite easily Online. Its stable enough to be worked with (meaning it doesnt detonate when you just lightly touch it eg. TATP) and i found a plan for a detonator from someone on here that uses ETN as main charge and Silver acetylide as Primary.

My suggestion is you browse the forum for a while and evaluate different energetic materials and thier pro's and con's and find the one hat suits your situation the best. If i got something wrong fel free to correct me.

Cheers :)

[Edited on 8-6-21 by kweiny]

densest - 12-6-2021 at 20:34

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
If a fountain type firework uses a mixture of potassium nitrate with sulphur and iron powders,
in a humid environment, is it likely or possible that people downwind may smell hydrogen sulphide?

(considering testing... just curious)


KNO3 + S + fuel reactions are interesting. Gunpowder has been researched pretty thoroughly. As usual I don't have the reference on hand. Among other products KNO3 + S produce complex sulfides of potassium which can react with water to make H2S. Gunpowder charcoal contains enough volatiles to produce H2S directly.

I'm curious that the firework described will be a fountain because relatively little gas will be produced. I'd expect some charcoal or other gas-producing fuel.

Runic7 - 18-6-2021 at 21:30

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
If a fountain type firework uses a mixture of potassium nitrate with sulphur and iron powders,
in a humid environment, is it likely or possible that people downwind may smell hydrogen sulphide?

(considering testing... just curious)


Unlikely, out of all the testing I have done with fountains outdoors, I have never run into a problem with the smell of hydrogen sulfide. As long as pure chemicals are used, I don't think this will be a issue for you.

[Edited on 6-19-2021 by Runic7]

ManyInterests - 9-11-2021 at 19:37

I have a question about freebasing hydrazine sulfate for nickel hydrazine nitrate synthesis. How many grams of sulfate to how much 95% ethanol and sodium hydroxide? Also add the hydroxide first or ethanol first?

DraconicAcid - 9-11-2021 at 19:55

Steam distillation- what is it good for purifying? What kind of impurities is it good for getting rid of?

I get the idea that it is good for purifying organic liquids with high boiling points and that are immiscible with water, and would be good for getting rid of materials that are either completely non-volatile, or are significantly water-soluble at 100 oC, but I haven't found a more detailed description than that. I'm thinking it might be a good way to separate, say, an amide from an ester.

walruslover69 - 10-11-2021 at 07:20

With a few exceptions, vacuum distillation is usually superior to steam distillation, as it is much quicker and doesn't involve further purification and drying.

The only times that I have ever steam distilled was when I reduced a nitro compound with zinc, and had my amine mixed with a large solid mass of zinc oxide. Worked great, but is a little bit of a hassle. It's not the best at getting good separation of compounds (in my experience). I think It's a popular way to extract essential oils fragrances and terpenes from plant material without using solvents.

It could work, you might want to be slightly weary of hydrolyzing your ester in the presence of boiling water.

DraconicAcid - 10-11-2021 at 08:26

Sadly, I don't have a vacuum pump (and I don't think a water aspirator would work for vacuum distillation), so I'm still looking into steam.

Bert - 10-11-2021 at 12:18

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
I don't think a water aspirator would work for vacuum distillation


Not a given.

This depends on how much vacuum you want, how sensitive to water your process is and how cold you can keep your water supply...

https://www.amazon.com/HNZXIB-Laboratory-Distillation-Equipm...

[Edited on 11-10-2021 by Bert]

SWIM - 10-11-2021 at 20:41

For years a water aspirator was all I had for vacuum distillations.

It worked okay as long as you didn't need too high a vacuum.
I'd put a filter flask in the line from aspirator to still as a vacuum trap to ensure I never sucked a bunch of water into my reaction mixtures.

I've made diethylsulfate that way, and a few other things.
I was only getting down to 50 Torr or so because the tap water on the San Francisco peninsula isn't d very cold.

I bet the tap water is a lot colder in your neck of the woods, and you can always use recirculated ice cooled water if needs be. And if you have a pump.

Using the tap won't work well if you have pressure fluctuation in your plumbing, but if the pressure is fairly constant it does work okay.

Older organic lab manuals have good advice on setup and use of aspirators for distillation.
I like Organic Experiments, by Feiser and Feiser.

karlos³ - 11-11-2021 at 00:00

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Sadly, I don't have a vacuum pump (and I don't think a water aspirator would work for vacuum distillation), so I'm still looking into steam.

Oh wait what?
Nonono, it suffices, not for everything but it does.

I agree with mostly everything SWIM said about them.
Its a good alternative.
There is a video of nurdrage or the other guy, boiling water at rt with an aspirator.
I bought a few of the cheap(very cheap) pump he used in there directly from india after trying it out.
Or was it from china and the video how to put the cables in came from india?(that sounds more realistic)
I am still on my second, because the first needs to be taken apart for cleaning etc, but still worked.
Oh, I bought those pumps in 18 or even 17 :o

DraconicAcid - 11-11-2021 at 10:34

Not sure how stable my water pressure is, but I can hook up a trap easily enough. I may very well give it a try. I can always keep the receiver in an ice bath, and I don't have to worry about water-sensitivity (or I wouldn't be considering steam distillation).


One reason I'm considering steam distillation for this is that I'm usually keeping almost everything I do as a possibility for my students to use. I could have them do steam distillation, but all the water aspirators running at once for vacuum distillation? Yikes. Half the sinks would flood.

ManyInterests - 19-11-2021 at 21:40

Quote:
I have a question about freebasing hydrazine sulfate for nickel hydrazine nitrate synthesis. How many grams of sulfate to how much 95% ethanol and sodium hydroxide? Also add the hydroxide first or ethanol first?


To answer my own question, it appears to be 80% hydroxide to however much hydrazine sulfate you put in, and it appears to be best to dissolve the sulfate in ethanol first, only using exactly what is necessary.

Microtek - 21-11-2021 at 03:11

Hydrazine sulfate is not very soluble in ethanol. I suggest you use 1 mol HS to one mol sodium hydroxide, with enough ethanol added to cover the entire mass. Then triturate this (ie. grind it under the fluid surface) until a blob of white slurry has formed. In my experience, this blob doesn't really mix with the ethanol, so I like to add a second mol of NaOH to convert the NaHSO4 to Na2SO4 to make it separate more cleanly as a crystalline precipitate. There may be a drying effect as well, since Na2SO4 can form stable hydrates.
Then decant the ethanol solution of hydrazine, and extract the remainder with a few more portions of ethanol. There's a trade off here between product recovery and concentration, so consider your requirements.

ManyInterests - 26-11-2021 at 14:16

That sounds good. It will need maybe some experimentation for it to work. But I got other question related to NHN synthesis.

For the hydrazine, when making it using the Hoffman degradation of urea (how I made hydrazine sulfate) would the hydrazine that is made before the addition of sulfuric acid and cooling to extract the hydrazine sulfate be adequate to make nickel hydrazine nitrate? As in just adding the nickel nitrate solution to the hydrazine at 65 C be enough? That seems much easier than making the sulfate then freebasing it again. I can make the hydrazine and use it on the spot instead of storing it for later.

Also about the nickel nitrate hexahydrate. I saw people make it with nickel metal, nitric acid, and hydrogen peroxide as a catalyst. Do we need to dry it or boil it down to extract the hexahydrate, or would simply refluxing the three reagents for a few hours be enough? And the resulting solution added to the hydrazine as prepared above?

katyushaslab - 27-11-2021 at 05:01

No, the hydrazine in solution with unreacted urea, unreacted NaOCl, and all the side products is not going to be clean enough to work with.

You need to extract it as hydrazine sulfate, then freebase. This step will ensure that you have a clean enough starting material, no weird fucking side reactions, etc.

ManyInterests - 27-11-2021 at 19:38

OK that makes sense.

So I think this will likely be my final question for a good while... when making the nickel nitrate. I've seen everyone react nickel metal (I have 99.6% pure nickel metal. It's very shiny and extremely clean) that's been cut to tiny pieces. The process I've seen is to add around 30% hydrogen peroxide to it as a catalyst and 68% nitric acid in a flask and then to reflux it gently for several hours. (I plan on using a hot water bath for this and never let the water reach a rolling boil around 90C or so should be sufficient).

After refluxing for hours, can this mixture be added directly to the hydrazine or would it need to be filtered? If the hexahydrate needs to be vacuum filtered, what is the optimal way of cleaning the buchner funnel? Just distilled/tap water or any other solvent is necessary? I heard that that Nickel Nitrate hexahydrate is hard to filter as it is a very fine particulate. Would it go through several layers of coffee filters?

Just getting info for the NHN synthesis. The HDN/RDX/Keto-RDX seems simple as all I need for that is fuming nitric acid at this point.

katyushaslab - 29-11-2021 at 05:34

I can't really answer to the "making nickel nitrate" question authoritatively, given I just buy my nickel nitrate.

I would, however, strongly advise filtering the nickel nitrate solution, boiling it down, and maybe recrystallizing from distilled water - just to remove any unreacted nickel, etc. If I recall correctly, nickel might be one of those metals that can cause hydrazine to decompose.

More steps cleaning up your reactants will result in a safer, more reliable product. Taking shortcuts is inadvisable (though sometimes oh so tempting).

As for the HDN/RDX: a good efficiency tip is to use any weak nitric (say, created from traps while distilling - see the NurdRage videos) to make the HDN. As for the RDX part - you want white fuming nitric instead of red fuming nitric, bubbling dry air through RFNA will clear it up. Some people add a small amount of urea to clear their nitric, but I've had mixed results with that, dry air bubbling has been more reliable.

ManyInterests - 29-11-2021 at 06:06

I have a small palm-sized 12v air pump (works for blowing and vacuum) and some clear PVC tubing. I did heard that vinyl plastic doesn't get destroyed easily by highly concentrated nitric acid, so I will cut a short length to bubble out the NO2 when I make some more nitric acid. I know that the specific gravity of the acid must be 1.49 or 1.50 at room temperature it for it to be WFNA and work for RDX or Keto-RDX. I think I might try doing keto-RDX as it seems more powerful and still retains the stability of RDX. Also it would require a nitrating mixture of H2SO4 that will let me use up my remaining H2SO4 and stretch my WFNA supply.

Lomax - 17-4-2022 at 14:16

I have a question, can i use sodium bisulfate as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine?

Rainwater - 17-4-2022 at 14:46

Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests  
I have a small palm-sized 12v air pump (works for blowing and vacuum) and some clear PVC tubing. I did heard that vinyl plastic doesn't get destroyed easily by highly concentrated nitric acid, so I will cut a short length to bubble out the NO2 when I make some more nitric acid.


I have noticed considerable vacuum formation inside of a sealed apparatus connected to a bubblier, resulting in water sucking back into my collection flask. The best method I have discovered is by using a cold trap with dry ice to solidify the gas. After the no2 generating reaction is complete, I add an equal volume of ice to the cold trap and allow the apparatus to slowly warm up. The reaction produces a consentrated nitric acid

MineMan - 17-4-2022 at 17:57

Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
I have a question, can i use sodium bisulfate as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine?


Instead of sulfuric acid?

Lomax - 17-4-2022 at 20:41

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
I have a question, can i use sodium bisulfate as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine?


Instead of sulfuric acid?

Yes sience sulfuric acid can be replaced with sodium bisulfate for a number of reactions (Nitric Acid) for example. I thought it can be used as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine sience Conc. Sulfuric Acid is very regulated in my country.

MineMan - 18-4-2022 at 06:05

Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
I have a question, can i use sodium bisulfate as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine?


Instead of sulfuric acid?

Yes sience sulfuric acid can be replaced with sodium bisulfate for a number of reactions (Nitric Acid) for example. I thought it can be used as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine sience Conc. Sulfuric Acid is very regulated in my country.


Someone on here will know. It may be better to post in general chemistry. Can you try it yourself as well… everyone would be very interested in this answer

Lomax - 18-4-2022 at 06:19

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by Lomax  
I have a question, can i use sodium bisulfate as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine?


Instead of sulfuric acid?

Yes sience sulfuric acid can be replaced with sodium bisulfate for a number of reactions (Nitric Acid) for example. I thought it can be used as a dehydration agent for Nitrourea or Nitroguanidine sience Conc. Sulfuric Acid is very regulated in my country.


Someone on here will know. It may be better to post in general chemistry. Can you try it yourself as well… everyone would be very interested in this answer

Ok

Morgan - 20-6-2022 at 12:51

I have a cylinder-shaped pencil holder like thing consisting of a tower of spaced aluminum rings and at the base a disc of clear glass bonded to the bottom aluminum ring. It looks like a clear glue of some sort so I tried heating it as much as I dared to break the bond and also acetone for the heck of it. Maybe it's an epoxy glue but what typically is used to glue glass and is there something that might break the bond? Maybe it's silicone.


[Edited on 20-6-2022 by Morgan]

specialactivitieSK - 10-7-2022 at 00:39

What exactly is LD-70 carrier? Thx.
https://youtu.be/h_zQUrvP_LE

jerry0nim0 - 23-9-2022 at 02:39

Quote: Originally posted by specialactivitieSK  
What exactly is LD-70 carrier? Thx.
https://youtu.be/h_zQUrvP_LE


I've found something like this:
"[...] LD-70, a plastigel binder containing polyacrylate and dinitrodiethyleneglycol (70 %), dinitrotriethyleneglycol (30 %) monopropellants"

underground - 21-11-2022 at 23:36

What is going to yield when diaminourea/diaminoguanidine dinitrate reacting with 98% H2SO4 at low temp ? (similar to guanidine nitrate forming nitroguanidine)

otonel - 27-11-2022 at 08:30

What is the best method to make picric acid from tetryl (2,4,6-Trinitrophenylmethylnitramine)?


[Edited on 27-11-2022 by otonel]

dettoo456 - 30-11-2022 at 10:00

@underground It may likely form the Aminonitroguanidine (ANQ) or Dinitroguanidine (DNQ) but the classical synth of DNQ iirc involves direct nitration of NQ with Oleum and WFNA. Either way, the DNQ and Dinitrourea (DNU) are both known as extremely unstable to STP conditions and will hydrolzye before they’re ever useful. ANQ is stable though but the normal synth to that involves amination of NQ - see DBXLabs’ prep for deets.

Nitrosoguanidine sensitivity?

Hey Buddy - 9-12-2022 at 21:11

I know nitrosoguanidine is referenced as a demonstration novelty, but it is reported to act as a primary explosive, sensitive to match head heat. Has anyone tried to dope other explosives with nitrosoguanidine? to use the nitroso as a catalytic sensitizer to then initiate reaction in another borderline secondary like ETN/PETN?

dettoo456 - 10-12-2022 at 11:30

It might be useful on its own but nitrosoguanidine is notoriously carcinogenic. AFAIK the cyclic nitroso analogues are much less toxic than even their nitro counterparts but aliphatic (especially guanidine) nitroso compounds are to be handled extremely carefully (assuming you want kids in the future). Polynitroimidazoles, formed via the decomp and oxidative nitrosation of nucleotide bases (Adenosine & xanthines) or through condensation of guanidines and dialdehydes or guanidines and glycine, could prove useful for boosters - at least that’s what I’m trying to look into.

Otherwise, I’d just stick with the classic trains like NiAQ-ClO4 or LS/Ba(ClO3)2 -> pressed PETN or CHP -> bulk EM. Sensitizing ETN and/or PETN beyond their normal decomp temperatures sounds like it could be sketchy but if you think it could be useful... there’s no harm in testing (small scale ofc).

Nitroguanidine reduction

Hey Buddy - 13-12-2022 at 22:03

I screwed up an electrolytic nitroguanidine reduction by using a copper anode. This creates a red colored substance from the nitroguanidine at cathode on lead, with a clay pot diaphragm separation. I have actually done this before mistakenly a few years ago, so it felt really stupid to see again, but I forgot. I also forgot what this material is. I dont want to throw it out. It's red and smells of ammonia and is in the cathode compartment. I think Thiel writes about it but I cant find it. If anyone remembers what this substance is please share. Thank you. I think maybe it's a strange tetrazine...cant remember

[Edited on 14-12-2022 by Hey Buddy]

Guanidine reaction with hydrazine?

Hey Buddy - 27-12-2022 at 19:29

Does anyone know what the product of hydrazinolysis of simple guanidine is? I would assume aminoguanidine, analogous to NQ hydrazinolysis giving ANQ. --Cant find examples of this reaction anywhere.

In searching I found a NASA technical report: Aminoguanidine Nitrate can be made from NQ + N2H4 +NH4NO3 or NQ + N2H4*HNO3 in ammonia solution. Still not sure what comes of Guanidine.



[Edited on 28-12-2022 by Hey Buddy]

[Edited on 28-12-2022 by Hey Buddy]

Mr.Fluorine - 1-1-2023 at 09:14

I've been trying to figure out what the reason is for PETN being so much more insensitive than other alkyl nitrate esters. Nitroglycerin or ETN are considered much more sensitive, why is this? Is it due to steric strain or maybe primary nitrate esters are just much less sensitive?

BerthelotOnCrack - 3-1-2023 at 08:45

In the wiki, the proposed nitrocellulose synthesis uses only 2.5 grams of cellulose for 0.25 moles of nitrated salt and 50mL sulfuric, but according to wikipedia a mole of nitrocellulose is 3 moles of nitrogen, so with 0.25 moles of nitrogen in the salt, say KNO3 here, you could make 0.083 moles of nitrocellulose aka... 13.4 grams of ideally trinitrated nitro. Is there a specific reason to waste so much nitrates here ? Or was it just for safety concerns

Edit: Also has anyone tried mashing paper to get the cellulose ? It would be more convenient than buying 20 bags of 10g of cellulose and I think they use pure wood pulp in industrial bullet propellant production, which is exactly that

[Edited on 3-1-2023 by BerthelotOnCrack]

Rainwater - 3-1-2023 at 08:57

NOx is a side product removing nitrate from the reaction.

BerthelotOnCrack - 3-1-2023 at 11:21

Given I have done only a couple nitrations yet, I'm not saying you are wrong but if 81% of the nitrates formed NO2 I would be dead or something, I recently made ~50 grams of nitro at once and there was *zero* orange fumes, It would have been apocalyptic

Rainwater - 3-1-2023 at 14:29

Quote: Originally posted by BerthelotOnCrack  
*zero* orange fumes,

If this was done in open air, I would test the reagents.
The less water the better, I use this procedure
https://youtu.be/ldPHzCnRYos
Only modification being in a cold water bath less than 10c, with almost anhydrous reagents.
Turns paper towels into a nice powder.

[Edited on 3-1-2023 by Rainwater]

arkoma - 18-3-2023 at 14:16

I can remember seeing something about an energetic powder made from k nitrate and k carbonate but that is ALL I remember. Anyone got any insight?

Bert - 18-3-2023 at 16:37

Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
I can remember seeing something about an energetic powder made from k nitrate and k carbonate but that is ALL I remember. Anyone got any insight?


There is an historical mixture called "yellow powder", allegedly percussion sensitive and possibly even a primary explosive in old descriptions.

It was made from a mixture of potassium nitrate, potassium carbonate and SULFUR in 3:2:1 ratio by weight.

The mixture had to be carefully and slowly heated to the melting point of at least one of the ingredients (sulfur being the most likely) with constant mixing, kept semi molten for a period, then allowed to harden and afterwards be crushed to a powder.

This mixture/product dearly loved to either catch fire or explode during processing. It was also hygroscopic.

There is at least one 1800's patent in USA for use as a percussion priming compound, I don't believe there was ever any substantial commercial use of this mixture/product. When I tried to replicate historical accounts of production, I had a few accidental fires and failed to produce a product which behaved as described more often than not. Then ONE TIME, IT WORKED. And damned if I could figure out what I'd done differently THAT time!

As always, if you are going to try? SMALL quantities and personal protective equipment are a must. I recall reading some descriptions by whoever took out the patent of pound sized batches going off in processing, how he lived long enough to get his patent is a good question.

There is speculation that the mixture + heating process generates polysulfides of unknown stoichiometry/behaviors. It definitely turned a darker orange/brown color during the heating & mixing process.

[Edited on 3-19-2023 by Bert]

arkoma - 19-3-2023 at 08:53

Thanks Bert. Believe I will leave this one alone.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 3-4-2023 at 04:42

Hello everyone. Worldwide, it is not possible to determine the oxygen balance for sodium hypophosphite, NaH2PO2. Available but imprecise calculations point to -36.9 per CO2. But it is nonsense, because in molecule is not Carbon. Can any of you calculate it exactly?
Thank you. Dr. Liptakov....:cool:

[Edited on 3-4-2023 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

dettoo456 - 3-4-2023 at 11:18

LL, I’m guessing it’d just be substituting the complete oxidation of C to CO2 to P to H3PO4 (technically could be P2O5 but since H3PO4 is more stable it’s probably favored in the complete decomp pathway). Same as for assuming the OB% on NH4ClO4 (where I believe the Cl is oxidizing in its own right and converting to HCl). The general formula for OB% also takes into account metallic and non-metallic elements other than C, like Al and Fe2O3.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 3-4-2023 at 14:05

Thanks, dettoo456....burning results show for NaH2PO2 x 1H2O on OB - 35. Is it not exact, but for orientation ratios is it useful.

dettoo456 - 12-4-2023 at 14:53

Does anyone happen to know about the acidic properties related to N-oxides (and also their acidity as it relates to N-oxides in hydroxy/ketone-containing heterocycles? For example, TKX-50 carries two NH2OH molecules as bases for the N-doxides on it and NTO exhibits mild acidity related to its amphoteric NHs at the 1 & 2 position(which tautomerize with the ketone to form OH- salts with metals and other bases). If one were to combine both a ketone and N-oxide into a single molecule though (like 5-hydroxytetrazole-2-oxide or even 3,6-dihydroxy-1,2,4,5-tetrazine-2,5-dioxide), how would it act as an acid? Would the base preferentially react with the N-oxide or the hydroxyl group, and would it be stabilized or sensitized by a constant ‘switching’ of metathesis neutralization at different positions?

yobbo II - 14-4-2023 at 07:18

Yellow powder

Yellow Powder is a mixture of Potassium nitrate,Potassium carbonate and Sulfur. It has no apparent use in fireworks and should be made for educational reasons only.

Tutorial Take 20 parts of Potassium Carbonate and 10 parts of sulfur and melt it until a paste. Then let it solidify and add 30 parts of milled Potassium nitrate to the comp and mix it by diaper method. Besides the violent and unpredictable nature, the chronic hygroscopicity has the effect of making this substance unsuitable for firework manufacture.

Commonly found on less reputable internet websites and databases is a proposed method of manufacture involving three component melting. This method has been shown by experiments to very often detonate during this process. This is a good example of why, given the nature of explosives, one should be wary of trusting internet advice. Much of it is known to be false, and given the consequences of taking false advice. While the internet is an invaluable learning tool, Don't take what you read as true unless you have backed it up with a number of other sources, even though this will mean research will further delay your experimentation.

From Pyroguide

Would this work if you were to use sodium nitrate and sodium carbonate or Na Nitrate/ K Carbonate etc
Must it be KN and KC only?

Yob

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-4-2023 at 13:46

Mixtures Na / Na or K/Na or Na/ K will works. Only behavior will slightly different. Else melting point, else explo point. Else power of explo. Any way, using cold crushed Yellow powder has low practical using.

proculation - 28-4-2023 at 16:46

(this is my first post :o but I have been a several years reader/member (not for "energetic materials" purpose :P))

I'm looking at different pest control (i.e. woodchucks in my case) smoke cartridges (M)SDS's and most of them have mostly the same formulation as black powder (nitrate, carbon/charcoal, sulfur) but with a ~1:1 nitrate/sulfur ratio instead of ~15:2 and containing about the same carbon/charcoal percentage.

Question: what is making black powder explode/deflagrate in a confined space (cartridge) but not those smoke cartridges, even though the nitrate oxidizer composition is only 1/3 less ?

[Edited on 29-4-2023 by proculation]

Rainwater - 28-4-2023 at 16:52

Pressure, if you where to contain the smoke bomb in a pressure vessel, it would become a real bomb.
The composition amd processing are likely different
Commercial black powder is finely milled, sometimes for days to better mix the reagents and produce a faster boom.
As for pest control, you need a king snake.

specialactivitieSK - 29-4-2023 at 05:26

Guanidine perchlorate can be produced by double exchange reaction of guanidine hydrochloride with sodium perchlorate, possibly also ammonium perchlorate.
If I wanted to produce perchlorate of glycine, pyridine... would it be possible to produce these basic raw materials by reacting with HCl ? In an aqueous solution, or by introducing dried gas into the liquid.

proculation - 29-4-2023 at 15:46

Quote: Originally posted by Rainwater  
Pressure, if you where to contain the smoke bomb in a pressure vessel, it would become a real bomb.
The composition amd processing are likely different
Commercial black powder is finely milled, sometimes for days to better mix the reagents and produce a faster boom.
As for pest control, you need a king snake.


Of course, I understand the pressure in an ammunition cartridge. My question was more about the difference in speed/velocity of the combustion/reaction between the two.

e.g. ignite a black powder (not necessarily commercial) filled cardboard cartridge like those smoke "bombs" and you would actually have created a "firework" and the whole thing would be propulsed out burning with the gas produced.

From what I understand, the concept of having about 1/3 less nitrate and more sulfur instead is to produce "incomplete" oxidation of the carbon/charcoal to create more CO than CO2 and also SO2 (CO and SO2 being the gases wanted to kill the pests). But why only that quite minimal change in composition can make such a big difference in the burning speed ?

Rainwater - 29-4-2023 at 16:52

Its not clear what the complete composition is, but increasing the content of sulfer might also increases the SOx products. SO2 is toxic, SO3 would be cruel as it combines with water in the lungs to make H2SO4
I couldnt find and literature reguarding this exact topic
[Edit]
https://www.jes.or.jp/isem/2017/invitedspeakers/documents/Mi...
This paper list normal black powder's products of conbustion.
Its a mix of K2S, K2CO3 and K2SO4.
Given the excess of sulfer, K2S and K2SO4 should be major products
These will acidified water and is an inhalation hazard.
The particulate size is listed as 1uM. This also poses an inhalation hazard.

[Edited on 30-4-2023 by Rainwater]

Low molecular weight exhaust/high combustion energy ramjet fuel?

Bert - 11-5-2023 at 19:08

I don't do much work with "exotic" or liquid rocket fuels. Looking at the recent trends in tactical rockets, a number of deployed systems are using fuel rich SOLID fueled rocket engines which once up to speed change from high thrust fuels to an insufficiently oxidized fuel and add rammed atmospheric oxygen to their incompletely burned rocket exhaust either in the primary combustion chamber or some arrangement of "afterburning" expansion bell.

Looking at several tables for LIQUID fuels offering low molecular weight combustion products/high combustion energies while considering potential fuel for a similar hybrid rocket/ram air breathing combustion system? I see lithium borohydride has 24.89g/100cc solubility in tetrahydrofuran @ 25°C. Density of such a solution is perhaps a bit low, molecular weight of exhaust gasses looks interestingly low, combustion energy with air is quite decent.

Anyone got experience with how unstable in storage/toxic/corrosive/generally nasty a solution of Lithium borohydride in terahydrofuran might be? I do understand that some organic reactions makes use of such solution.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-augmented_rocket#:~:text=Typical%20solid%20rockets%20have%20a,oxygen%20engines%20can't%20

https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Lithium_boro...

https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Tetrahydrofu...


[Edited on 5-12-2023 by Bert]

Bert - 11-5-2023 at 20:44

Quote: Originally posted by proculation  
Quote: Originally posted by Rainwater  
Pressure, if you where to contain the smoke bomb in a pressure vessel, it would become a real bomb.
The composition amd processing are likely different
Commercial black powder is finely milled, sometimes for days to better mix the reagents and produce a faster boom.
As for pest control, you need a king snake.


Of course, I understand the pressure in an ammunition cartridge. My question was more about the difference in speed/velocity of the combustion/reaction between the two.

e.g. ignite a black powder (not necessarily commercial) filled cardboard cartridge like those smoke "bombs" and you would actually have created a "firework" and the whole thing would be propulsed out burning with the gas produced.

From what I understand, the concept of having about 1/3 less nitrate and more sulfur instead is to produce "incomplete" oxidation of the carbon/charcoal to create more CO than CO2 and also SO2 (CO and SO2 being the gases wanted to kill the pests). But why only that quite minimal change in composition can make such a big difference in the burning speed ?


Having used dozens of such pest control cartridges (rats! I HATE RATS) I observed the pressed composition was a very rough mixture, one could see crystals of the oxidizer on the pressed surface of the compressed composition without magnification. In a properly milled propellant powder, you would need a microscope to see the individual crystals of nitrate.

A similar sized pressed grain of powder in a small end burning rocket engine would burn for a few seconds. The "gopher gasser" cartridges smoldered for perhaps 30 seconds- A long, slow burn, skewed to produce excess sulfur dioxide and CARBON MONOXIDE. Very little chance for overpressuring a rat tunnel or otherwise going "kaboom".

MineMan - 12-5-2023 at 11:20

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
I don't do much work with "exotic" or liquid rocket fuels. Looking at the recent trends in tactical rockets, a number of deployed systems are using fuel rich SOLID fueled rocket engines which once up to speed change from high thrust fuels to an insufficiently oxidized fuel and add rammed atmospheric oxygen to their incompletely burned rocket exhaust either in the primary combustion chamber or some arrangement of "afterburning" expansion bell.

Looking at several tables for LIQUID fuels offering low molecular weight combustion products/high combustion energies while considering potential fuel for a similar hybrid rocket/ram air breathing combustion system? I see lithium borohydride has 24.89g/100cc solubility in tetrahydrofuran @ 25°C. Density of such a solution is perhaps a bit low, molecular weight of exhaust gasses looks interestingly low, combustion energy with air is quite decent.

Anyone got experience with how unstable in storage/toxic/corrosive/generally nasty a solution of Lithium borohydride in terahydrofuran might be? I do understand that some organic reactions makes use of such solution.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-augmented_rocket#:~:text=Typical%20solid%20rockets%20have%20a,oxygen%20engines%20can't%20

https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Lithium_boro...

https://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Tetrahydrofu...


[Edited on 5-12-2023 by Bert]


Damn it. That was one of my ideas, that I was going to develop, a fuel rich solid propellant capable of being a ramjet, it simplifies things greatly and I am upset they developed it before I could… I had formulations in mind as well. But I am sure the engineers in the 60s had thought of this too, they thought of everything. It’s painful to see an idea I was saving developed, but it also confirms my thinking is calibrated correctly.

Bert. I think solid fuels hold the candle here… liquid fuels do not have the density, yes, higher energy per unit volume…. But exotic liquid fuels will be around .6-1 density… I think solid can be up to 1.5 or high density… even 2.0 if done right!!

Lithium borohydride. Nice. Chem force has a video on excotic hydrides. Not sure if he tested LBH, but he did test borohydrides and mixed them with oxidizers. One showed the most impressive brisance I have ever seen… maybe above 10kms

Bert - 12-5-2023 at 12:19

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
.

Bert. I think solid fuels hold the candle here…


I was looking at a lower oxidizer % whistle mix with some azodicarbonamide added...

MineMan - 13-5-2023 at 23:48

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
.

Bert. I think solid fuels hold the candle here…


I was looking at a lower oxidizer % whistle mix with some azodicarbonamide added...


Have you used azidocarbonamide In pyrotechnics, it has an extremely high density and looks promising. Seems like it’s a “super fuel”. Isn’t density about 1.9?

Bert - 14-5-2023 at 08:28

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
.

Bert. I think solid fuels hold the candle here…


I was looking at a lower oxidizer % whistle mix with some azodicarbonamide added...


Have you used azidocarbonamide In pyrotechnics, it has an extremely high density and looks promising. Seems like it’s a “super fuel”. Isn’t density about 1.9?


It's a gas generator when heated to fairly low temperatures. It is added in SMALL quantities as a fine powder to composite rocket fuels & propellants to increase burn speed, as each particle will blow up into a gas bubble/form a pit as it is heated either by conduction or IR below the burning surface, this effectively increases the burning area & speeds up deflagration of grains while providing some additional gas.

MineMan - 14-5-2023 at 16:26

What about in large quantities?

Bert - 14-5-2023 at 20:08

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
What about in large quantities?


Azodicarbonamide has two possible decomposition scenarios depending on temperature. I am ASSUMING that when used in explosives/propellants rather than to puff up plastic resin or frozen pizza dough (YECH!!!) the decomoisition will be under the high temperature scenario, which decomposes it into carbon monoxide, nitrogen and amonia. Amonia and carbon monoxide DO burn, it's not going to be as high energy as many rocket fuels but COULD be used? All the use I've seen is as a small adjunct to modify burn speed in composite rocket fuels. Not sure how the economics work out, I suspect the energy per mass or volume are't attractive as a primary fuel when HTPB, PBAN and aluminum are available & cheap

Someplace around here is about 100g of it, it also speeds up slow burning star compositions, cheaper things did as well or better though.

MineMan - 15-5-2023 at 12:30

Quote:
thought the main attraction was a density of 1.9, if so it has far more energy per volume than other fuels… even close to Al



Could you give your source for density figure? The material I've handled is an extremely fine, low density powder. As it was manufactured/sold as a blowing agent for foamed plastics, the particle size was chosen for ease of wide dispersion in plastic resin feed stocks. It MAY have a high theoretical density/crystal density, the commercial product is less apparently dense than food grade corn starch, which it somewhat resembles.


[Edited on 5-16-2023 by Bert]

[Edited on 5-16-2023 by Bert]

Dornier 335A's videos

EF2000 - 10-7-2023 at 08:07

I have found a dump of videos from Dornier 335A's channel on archive.org: here. While it's fortunate that they were saved, video descriptions are gone (as are comments). So when there're no details given in the video itself or file name, what was exactly tested (components, ratios and so on) remains a mystery.
So I have a question: have anybody here those descriptions saved in some form? Like screenshots, text dumps, memories, whatever.

Rainwater - 11-7-2023 at 07:34

Nice find
Code:
youtube user Dornier335AVideo Item Preview 1 1,3,5-Trichlorohexahydrotriazine-6ssW1fypU7E 00:57 2 30 milligram HE FP (High Explosive Flash Powder)-omjlv9iWGe4 00:25 3 55 gram flash powder explosion - Mg NaNO3 C-CKsfaxj8c2g 01:53 4 Ammonium Chlorate (NH4ClO3)-T59J0GjqfXc 01:26 5 Armstrong's Mixture + Ferrocerium - Extremely Powerful-WWPamyEQclM 02:06 6 Armstrong's Mixture + Ferrocerium Detonations-6vnQadeGVD8 01:24 7 Armstrong's Mixture - KClO3, KClO4, KMnO4 and KBrO3-F4lkPn1QQr4 01:33 8 Armstrong's mixture + ferrocerium - different ratios-7EhLMaVA3lw 02:49 9 Armstrong's mixture vs Mg NaNO3 flash powder-zv7i5A45zio 02:22 10 Burning Oxyliquit (Liquid Oxygen Explosives)-3Pr6dyaH17w 02:07 11 Chlorate Based Whistle Mix (part 1)-ptDgmk4pevs 01:15 12 Coloured Flash Powder - Red, Yellow, Green & Blue!-Dz cPOmviU8 02:27 13 Comparison of Burst Compositions-biOZbtc Wvs 02:18 14 Copper Acetylide-y2RNQczD0f8 01:24 15 Copper sulfate magnesium flash powder (CuSO4 Mg)-k6n3-rZOzPk 01:35 16 Copper(II) 5-Azidotetrazolate-Bdtl4-vABUw 01:01 17 CuO Mg thermite-4I0HQu-38sw 01:14 18 Detonator initiated super flash powder (0,05 gram)-ubyCi 7FRQs 01:57 19 Ditetrazolylhexaazadiene - Nitrogen Rich Super Explosive-qVZT5aR3ih0 01:59 20 Dragon's eggs (crackling microstars) in slow motion-2zceUUs R20 02:05 21 Exploding Ferrocerium Flint (High Speed)-375f2SqU6g0 00:34 22 Extremely Powerful Super Flash Powder - 5 milligrams-3k9QDhjVZDA 00:44 23 Fe2O3 Mg thermite-pqQg4R8XRXY 00:50 24 Ferrocerium Based Super Flash Powder - Detonation Test-d7BST4XpF5s 02:01 25 Filming Flash Powder with an Optical Filter-6EZS-OQ0Flw 01:13 26 Flash Powder Comparison - KClO3 Al vs KClO4 Al-N3PXxxptZzA 02:34 27 Flash powder and flour explosions (High speed)-GdF2xAmsQlg 01:11 28 Flash powder with silver and golden sparks-eN2xKceRjDw 01:32 29 Flash powder with water as oxidizer!-ix-OTDv0i8s 01:55 30 Golden Powder and Crimson Powder-Usb6tjrjY1g 01:00 31 High Density Armstrong's Mixture-ixr JHIW 8 01:05 32 Homemade Det Cord-LYMyPZVweyY 03:32 33 How to build a salute shell-UaCUF0asJvI 03:32 33 How to build a salute shell-UaCUF0asJvI 03:25 34 How to make super fine powdered magnesium and aluminium powder (1 micron)-JeMeRhgKFsk 00:49 35 Magnesium Flash Powder Comparison-b1tBxJXoxwo 01:01 36 Magnesium Teflon Flash powder (Mg PTFE)-WDXs3B51GH8 01:00 37 Magnesium sodium nitrate flash powder - 100 µm vs 1 µm-l-FETdncn3I 00:29 38 Magnesium and snow flash powder!- 19a5Tps2C8 00:20 39 Magnesium based yellow star-UGzFV3WDYAQ 04:10 40 Manganese Heptoxide, Mn2O7 [high speed]-7urXzTegEIc 02:58 41 Metal Picrates - Properties and Mixtures-txWSNvw4i8o 01:57 42 Mg KClO3 Flash Powder-Y5JjpjwaSWo 00:27 43 Mg NaNO3 C Flash Powder - 20 milligrams- WV FUz-kZc 02:08 44 Mg NaNO3 flash powder - different ratios-4DkOY0qMXe0 00:31 45 Minecraft - TNT in real life-1ZxQSxKoruM 02:40 46 Mini missile with HEAT warhead-Y1Jdc5JrTk0 01:44 47 Molten Whistle Mix (part 2)-ZRHCnOhx7kU 02:13 48 More Mg NaNO3 flash powder sensitivity tests-spT2vvOZlvc 00:12 49 My first 0.5 Inch Aerial Shell-vHqjGWsHa3A 01:50 50 NaNO3 Flash Powder, KClO3 Flash Powder, Black Powder and H3 Comparison-esQ4G1a519o 00:27 51 NaNO3 Mg ferrocerium flash powder-o9p3-j1CTnc 02:11 52 Nano Armstrong's Mixture - Properties and Sensitivity-UAmJ6QWHmTg 01:28 53 Nano Armstrong's Mixture-bSQIMXuyC8M 01:56 54 Nano Flash Powder - KClO3 MgAl-mpr1MWE1B8I 01:06 55 Nano Flash Powder - KClO4 Mg-HgsLsKlDwpE 01:00 56 Nano Flash Powder - Mg NaNO3-Zr02r-dqSp4 00:30 57 Nano-thermite (super-thermite) 0,05 g-dShGYuU Wks 00:35 58 New black match test-BWLuIWbmlR4 00:37 59 Nitrogen Triiodide (NI3 NH3)-5LaVRNKqBZw 01:34 60 Normal magnalium thermite vs submicron super thermite-61gImPPFRrk 01:11 61 One year of pyrotechnics-lqFmOz4krao 01:18 62 Potassium Chlorate and Potassium Ferricyanide-Cv0SZZyGgyA 01:17 63 Potassium Nitrate vs Sodium Nitrate - Rocket Candy and Flash Powder-ReDz3wyUYRM 02:47 64 Pure Manganese Heptoxide-gPcfwiJcqSY 03:13 65 Pyromusical-AhQod8Qvjzw 00:52 66 Rare Earth Metal Flash Powders-O3lHX-ayzDQ 03:19 67 Saltpeter sugar smoke bomb vs newspaper smoke bomb-RCTTlrFdSkE 02:21 68 Silver Acetylide vs Armstrong's Mixture REVISITED!-lxqkVwC-bks 02:51 69 Silver acetylide vs Armstrong's mixture + ferrocerium-HNRKuuwsZQQ 03:10 70 Slow motion Water Balloon popping (Canon IXUS 300 HS)-1eGLTPeQSec 00:57 71 Sodium Bismuthate Flash Powder-KvmBYe13SUI 01:00 72 Sodium Persulfate and Magnesium Flash Powder-5HsJE7YrfRg 00:52 73 Sodium nitrate flash powder - Mg NaNO3 vs Mg NaNO3 C-EMP4AOKzK5s 00:32 74 Super Fast Flash Powder (NaNO3 Mg ferrocerium)-NyHsoHoMaLQ 01:11 75 Super Flash Powder - 0.4 g Mg NaNO3 C-3ZS6HvD7dBI 02:07 76 Super Flash Powder - K2S2O8 Mg-G-Pwqvb3yu8 01:16 77 Super Flash Powder - KMnO4 with Mg, Al and MgAl- T8zR-f-9X0 00:48 78 Super Flash Powder - The first high explosive flash powder-GcPedD A0BU 01:13 79 Super Flash Powder Detonation - HE FP-2VsbFHYnXWk 01:19 80 Super Flash Powder Tests - NaNO3 Mg, NaNO3 Mg S, NaNO3 Mg ferrocerium-OvV0e a8KpI 01:22 81 Super Flash Powder Tests - Unconfined-fE2ml9Nb6nk 01:47 82 Super Flash Powder and Armstrong's Mixture Comparison-PyOBFvpbo7c 01:11 83 Tetraamminecopper(II) persulfate (TACPS)-5u7jVVaE-Gg 03:17 84 Tetrazole Madness-WowrwV-0ca8 02:45 85 The HVRCA and my projectile velocity meter-KVQhpTuV46I 01:31 86 The Munroe Effect - Demonstrated with Armstrong's Mixture-SJGq0E6EqYU 01:12 87 The Power of Armstrong's Mixture + Ferrocerium-cLWcjiujJVU 01:09 88 The finest homemade aluminium powder you'll probably ever see-I0-itXJVvZI 01:01 89 Thermite test Fe2O3 Al-5i36DF oyYE 01:39 90 Tiny Fireworks Show 2015-09-25-HAaKiDtoUBk 03:13 91 Two Stage Combustion Light Gas Gun Prototype-JXeUvEVZ3mg 00:49 92 Underwater flash powder explosion-FWOHqeRSVkM 01:01 93 Water Activated Flash Powder - AgNO3 Mg-RcflI gQMYA 01:34 94 Yellow Powder-yJj2shi1kvg 00:52 95 Zinc Flash Powder-qAdAH4G KpM 02:09 96 Zinc Sulfur Rockets-u95g XQh5V0

Dornier 335A - 12-7-2023 at 00:28

Neat, I wasn't aware of the backup. Especially since I never had time to reupload all of them myself. The descriptions are unfortunately long gone but I'm happy to answer questions if you have any.

MineMan - 12-7-2023 at 02:34

Quote: Originally posted by Dornier 335A  
Neat, I wasn't aware of the backup. Especially since I never had time to reupload all of them myself. The descriptions are unfortunately long gone but I'm happy to answer questions if you have any.



Thanks man!

It’s a pleasure to still have you around :))

EF2000 - 12-7-2023 at 02:42

Quote: Originally posted by Dornier 335A  
Neat, I wasn't aware of the backup. Especially since I never had time to reupload all of them myself. The descriptions are unfortunately long gone but I'm happy to answer questions if you have any.

It's great that you're still around!
I'm mostly interested in your flash powders compositions. They are really otstanding! So, here's the first question: what is the "High Explosive Flash Powder" (HE FP) from videos #2, #78 and #79? Is it some version of your mainstray super flash powder (Mg+NaNO3+C/FeCe/S...) or something else? If it really detonates, I see a lot of potential uses for it. For example, annular charges in thermobaric warheads (pardon my militarism).
And the second question is about Golden and Crimson powders. Do they explode when heated in confinement, like whistle mix and yellow powder do?

yobbo II - 14-7-2023 at 04:27

I recognise the sounds of the birds chirriping in the background

Regarding ammonium chlorate. It turnes up in a us navy book of wwI explosives
It was used as a booster mixed with something else. It must be an error. Will post table later.
Called brown powder used by the japanese .

Yob

[Edited on 14-7-2023 by yobbo II]

jap_exp.gif - 205kB

dettoo456 - 22-7-2023 at 09:45

It might just be an impurity in my 5-ATz or nitrite or H2SO4, but for some reason whenever I run a recryst on NaNTz in acetone, my stir bar and PTFE stir rod always start to degrade and fall apart on contact with the hot NaNTz/acetone sol. I use acetone to extract NaNTz from a dry, crude rxn mix containing Na sulfate and bisulfate with small amounts of sulfuric and nitrous acid left in. I then decant the acetone and let the NaNTz drop out. Whenever the acetone and NaNTz mix together though, and come on contact with anything ptfe, they immediately cause the outer surface to slide off and turn into a gummy, almost soluble (in acetone) blob. The PTFE slightly resembles styrene in gasoline - sticky and pliable but still with some definite form. The reaction also occurs slightly during the 5-ATz nitrosation reaction in water, but to a much lesser degree and only when the mix is hot and acid conc is high.

This issue with the teflon has happened to me multiple times and I can attest to the purity of the NaNTz - although I haven’t tried to see if the same thing happens for other 5-NTz salts in any other solvents.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Running energetic synths in non-glass/metallic vessels is really important and it’s annoying that this incompatibility could pose a real issue.

B(a)P - 22-7-2023 at 12:56

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  
It might just be an impurity in my 5-ATz or nitrite or H2SO4, but for some reason whenever I run a recryst on NaNTz in acetone, my stir bar and PTFE stir rod always start to degrade and fall apart on contact with the hot NaNTz/acetone sol. I use acetone to extract NaNTz from a dry, crude rxn mix containing Na sulfate and bisulfate with small amounts of sulfuric and nitrous acid left in. I then decant the acetone and let the NaNTz drop out. Whenever the acetone and NaNTz mix together though, and come on contact with anything ptfe, they immediately cause the outer surface to slide off and turn into a gummy, almost soluble (in acetone) blob. The PTFE slightly resembles styrene in gasoline - sticky and pliable but still with some definite form. The reaction also occurs slightly during the 5-ATz nitrosation reaction in water, but to a much lesser degree and only when the mix is hot and acid conc is high.

This issue with the teflon has happened to me multiple times and I can attest to the purity of the NaNTz - although I haven’t tried to see if the same thing happens for other 5-NTz salts in any other solvents.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? Running energetic synths in non-glass/metallic vessels is really important and it’s annoying that this incompatibility could pose a real issue.


I have never had nor heard of this issue before. Did all of your stir bars come from the same place? Was it a reputable source?
While I have not had hot acetone/NaNTz in contact with my stir bars, I have had hot acidic solutions of NaNTz in contact with my stir bars and I have never noticed and degradation or discolouration.

dettoo456 - 23-7-2023 at 12:32

Yes the stir bars are PTFE and the degradation has happened with multiple bars from different sources (vwr, scilogex, and some old second-hand ones). I’ll try to link a video showing it - the warped ptfe is much easier to scrape off the bar (even with a dull metal spatula) and has a springy, elastic/plastic nature.

[Edited on 23-7-2023 by dettoo456]

[Edited on 23-7-2023 by dettoo456]

B(a)P - 23-7-2023 at 14:11

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  
Yes the stir bars are PTFE and the degradation has happened with multiple bars from different sources (vwr, scilogex, and some old second-hand ones). I’ll try to link a video showing it - the warped ptfe is much easier to scrape off the bar (even with a dull metal spatula) and has a springy, elastic/plastic nature.

[Edited on 23-7-2023 by dettoo456]

[Edited on 23-7-2023 by dettoo456]


That is so strange. I have just checked all of my stir bars that may have been in acidic nitrotetrazole solutions and they all look in great condition. I have also just checked all of the tetrazole references I have and I can't find mention of this issue observed by others. Looking forward to hearing if anyone else has experienced/heard of this.

Edit - typo

[Edited on 23-7-2023 by B(a)P]

Rainwater - 23-7-2023 at 15:54

Making sodium by the nerdrage process, its easy to tell when a stirbar is fake. I had a few simply dissolve and turn my reaction a rusty red. This sounds similar.

dettoo456 - 27-7-2023 at 11:08



Attachment: IMG_1524.mov (6.2MB)
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I had to cut up the video but hopefully this shows some of the properties of the stir bar. The NaNTz solution is orange/yellow but I know for sure that is is pure - any other impurities I can’t deduce.

The PTFE shown is more springy/elastic than normal PTFE (which would usually break clean off of the bar when cut). Also, my dull spatula can’t dig into clean PTFE; not in the case of this degraded PTFE though.

B(a)P - 27-7-2023 at 12:32

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  





I had to cut up the video but hopefully this shows some of the properties of the stir bar. The NaNTz solution is orange/yellow but I know for sure that is is pure - any other impurities I can’t deduce.

The PTFE shown is more springy/elastic than normal PTFE (which would usually break clean off of the bar when cut). Also, my dull spatula can’t dig into clean PTFE; not in the case of this degraded PTFE though.


Wow, you are right the PTFE is totally destroyed! How long and what was the sustained temperature that stir bar was in contact with the NaNTz solution? Is there a chance your stir bars could have been damaged previously from some other experiment?

Dornier 335A - 31-7-2023 at 01:24

Quote: Originally posted by EF2000  

It's great that you're still around!
I'm mostly interested in your flash powders compositions. They are really otstanding! So, here's the first question: what is the "High Explosive Flash Powder" (HE FP) from videos #2, #78 and #79? Is it some version of your mainstray super flash powder (Mg+NaNO3+C/FeCe/S...) or something else? If it really detonates, I see a lot of potential uses for it. For example, annular charges in thermobaric warheads (pardon my militarism).
And the second question is about Golden and Crimson powders. Do they explode when heated in confinement, like whistle mix and yellow powder do?


It is a flash with two oxidizers and two fuels: sodium nitrate, potassium chlorate, ferrocerium, and red P. I think the ratio was 25/35/25/15. Obviously quite sensitive, but its biggest problem is the ferrocerium which oxidizes in air. It won't detonate after only a few days. Later, I got several simpler mixtures like Mg/NaNO3 to detonate by simply grinding the powders down to submicron sizes.

Golden/crimson powder is equivalent to black powder in almost every way (except hygroscopicity). The mixture ignites well below its melting point so it doesn't behave like whistle mix or yellow powder.

EF2000 - 31-7-2023 at 07:08

Quote: Originally posted by Dornier 335A  


It is a flash with two oxidizers and two fuels: sodium nitrate, potassium chlorate, ferrocerium, and red P. I think the ratio was 25/35/25/15. Obviously quite sensitive, but its biggest problem is the ferrocerium which oxidizes in air. It won't detonate after only a few days. Later, I got several simpler mixtures like Mg/NaNO3 to detonate by simply grinding the powders down to submicron sizes.

Thanks for the answers, much appreciated.
I had a suspicion that the first high explosive flash powder must have some serious drawbacks. "The first pancake is a lump" as they say in my country. Since it's basically a mixture of Armstrong's Mixture and flash powder with air-sensitive fuel, any practical use is ruled out.
But Mg/NaNO3 flash powders are very promising. Especially if the extra fine Mg powder is somehow protected from air and moisture. Like linseed oil coating or chromate passivation.

B(a)P - 31-7-2023 at 14:02

Quote: Originally posted by EF2000  

But Mg/NaNO3 flash powders are very promising. Especially if the extra fine Mg powder is somehow protected from air and moisture. Like linseed oil coating or chromate passivation.


The sodium nitrate is what will need careful protection from moist air.

EF2000 - 31-7-2023 at 21:02

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

The sodium nitrate is what will need careful protection from moist air.

Of course. Sodium nitrate needs to be protected from becoming moist. And magnesium needs to be protected from reacting with that moisture.
I don't know how to protect both in bulk powder form, but in plastic-binded composition it's easy. For example, silicone binders, used in Bulgarian H-TBX and A-TBX, are both dry and water-proof.

OneEyedPyro - 9-8-2023 at 01:03

Does anyone know the maximum amount of PETN that can be dissolved in molten TNT? I did some digging but everything seems to refer to either a very low percentage of PETN or a 50/50 mix. I think I recall seeing something from Urbanski or PowerLabs many years back saying that they were effectively miscible, but I'm second guessing myself wondering if it wasn't in reference to ETN/TNT.

MineMan - 9-8-2023 at 01:55

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Does anyone know the maximum amount of PETN that can be dissolved in molten TNT? I did some digging but everything seems to refer to either a very low percentage of PETN or a 50/50 mix. I think I recall seeing something from Urbanski or PowerLabs many years back saying that they were effectively miscible, but I'm second guessing myself wondering if it wasn't in reference to ETN/TNT.


Look up pentolite. Used in blasting boosters

OneEyedPyro - 9-8-2023 at 02:30

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  

Look up pentolite. Used in blasting boosters

I have and found only info about common ratios used commercially. I've seen references that the Russians have used a mixture of 75/25 in grenades, mortars, HE projectiles etc but that may just be a suspension of PETN like with Comp B using RDX rather than being fully molten.

MineMan - 10-8-2023 at 07:28

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  

Look up pentolite. Used in blasting boosters

I have and found only info about common ratios used commercially. I've seen references that the Russians have used a mixture of 75/25 in grenades, mortars, HE projectiles etc but that may just be a suspension of PETN like with Comp B using RDX rather than being fully molten.


Well that works too. Even water can be used to increase the suspension of energetics and their power.

DennyDevHE77 - 30-10-2023 at 22:46

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
maximum amount of PETN that can be dissolved in molten TNT?


7-14% PETN is dissolved in TNT, the rest will be already as an emulsion. At the same time, such an additive within the limits of solubility makes molten TNT sensitive to primary means of initiation (capsule detonator No 8)

PLSHY - 2-11-2023 at 18:30

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Does anyone know the maximum amount of PETN that can be dissolved in molten TNT? I did some digging but everything seems to refer to either a very low percentage of PETN or a 50/50 mix. I think I recall seeing something from Urbanski or PowerLabs many years back saying that they were effectively miscible, but I'm second guessing myself wondering if it wasn't in reference to ETN/TNT.
86.5% tnt and 13.5% petn form a low melting point eutectic with a melting point of 77 degrees Celsius 。When pentolite melts, it is a solid-liquid mixture, not a liquid. And it has only one ratio, that is 50:50

[Edited on 3-11-2023 by PLSHY]

Bender84 - 4-11-2023 at 09:46

Hello everyone,

Has anyone ever come across any material on the flammability of nitroglycol or nitroglycerin vapors, or the sensitivity (and explosiveness) of these substances' vapors to ESD, for example?

I have only found a study on the flammability of alkyl nitrates vapors (The Inflammation of Alkyl Nitrate Vapours and the Effect of Inert Diluents, by P. Gray and A. D. Yoffe, Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical Sciences, Vol. 200, No. 1060 (Dec. 22, 1949), pp. 114-124). The authors does mention nitroglycerin vapors in the abstract (which, after all, have a relatively low vapor pressure), but there is no further development of this topic in the text itself.

I would be grateful for pointing me to a source where I could find information on this subject (if such a source exists).

Best regards.

[Edited on 4-11-2023 by Bender84]

Microtek - 6-11-2023 at 13:41

I would think that the vapor pressure of NG at least is too low to support combustion, though I haven't seen any papers discussing it.

knowledgevschaos - 29-11-2023 at 02:18

Hello everyone. This might sound like a dumb question, but why does iron spark on a grinder while aluminium, a more reactive metal, produces no sparks? Thanks.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 29-11-2023 at 04:50

Because aluminum has a much higher thermal conductivity than iron. Aluminum dissipates heat from the grinding area so quickly that this area does not have time to heat up to an ignition temperature.
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